November 10, 1975

[Erie Fred]

SS Edmund Fitzgerald - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Bobupndown]

A terrible tragedy and one that I am very interested in. The tribute by Gordon Lightfoot was brilliant and its on my playlist, I listen to it all the time.
As a result of the story of the 'Big Fitz' I've now read about and watched documentaries and many YouTube videos about stories of lost vessels on the Great lakes.
It's a place I've never visited but somewhere I'd love to come to sometime.
Thanks for marking the anniversary Fred.

 

[Erie Fred]

I know of a couple of people (engineers) that chase the remaining freighters, to do modifications
when the are dry docked in winter. From Duluth (lovely place in wintertime I hear.....)
to all up & down the great lakes.

One mod I heard of was to "Self unloading". So some major fabrication work.

Erie built a drydock, and built (2) of the 1000' ships, IIRC 1972 ish.
Now owned by DonJohn, and they repair and modify them.

Donjon Shipbuilding & Repair

 

[Erie Fred]

The Ultimate list of 1,000 Foot Freighters on the Great Lakes

We love big boats and we cannot lie! It’s hard to say which freighter is your favorite when comparing the countless vessels that traverse the waters of the Great Lakes. Although, there are 13 that stand out from the crowd for their sheer goliath-like size. Their sizes range from 1,000 feet in...

www.petoskey.com

 

[addjunkie]

Ore bashers had a hard life, and hulls run at high stress levels due to the way iron ore is loaded. Ore is very dense and has a high mass versus volume, its common to only load alternate holds.

 

[Erie Fred]

Here is a better listing:

The Ultimate list of 1,000 Foot Freighters on the Great Lakes

saultstemarie.com

 

[roofman]

Always fascinated me that SS Edmund, That crew had a zero chance of survival the poor souls. That big lake becomes a rough sea in a storm

 

[addjunkie]

Always fascinated me that SS Edmund, That crew had a zero chance of survival the poor souls. That big lake becomes a rough sea in a storm

The wreck was found in two pieces, reports suggest she was listing before going down, so a good change the relatively small piles of ore in the holds moved, or she was taking water in the holds, in effect overloading her. Ore carriers cracking due to the high stresses is very common. Read up on the Derbyshire, or the Kowloon Bridge. I did a trip bashing ore from Canada to British Steel ( Port Talbot or Redcar), in the winter. We had cracks all over the decks around the hatch coamings. And welding doubling plates at every port. This is the one I was on just out of drydock in Hamburg.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

The wreck was found in two pieces, reports suggest she was listing before going down, so a good change the relatively small piles of ore in the holds moved, or she was taking water in the holds, in effect overloading her. Ore carriers cracking due to the high stresses is very common. Read up on the Derbyshire, or the Kowloon Bridge. I did a trip bashing ore from Canada to British Steel ( Port Talbot or Redcar), in the winter. We had cracks all over the decks around the hatch coamings. And welding doubling plates at every port. This is the one I was on just out of drydock in Hamburg.
View attachment 472314

Friends dad was supposed to be wireless op on the Derbyshire, last minute crew change saw him sail on another ship that voyage

 

[Morrisman]

Ore bashers had a hard life, and hulls run at high stress levels due to the way iron ore is loaded. Ore is very dense and has a high mass versus volume, its common to only load alternate holds.

I heard or read somewhere that the impact of the ore landing would work harden the steel of the hull, which lead to cracks eventually.

And nobody wants a crack in their bottom when out at sea…

And more than a few ships have broken their back when tied up alongside, from being loaded unevenly.

We learned a load of this sort of stuff when I was working offshore and doing no end of safety training and courses etc.

 

[addjunkie]

I heard or read somewhere that the impact of the ore landing would work harden the steel of the hull, which lead to cracks eventually.

And nobody wants a crack in their bottom when out at sea…

And more than a few ships have broken their back when tied up alongside, from being loaded unevenly.

We learned a load of this sort of stuff when I was working offshore and doing no end of safety training and courses etc.

As a generalisation a bulk carrier may have say 9 holds each carrying approximately the same volume of cargo. Before loading any cargo a loading plan is drawn up, taking in to account how much fuel, water etc is on board, time of the year and location. With grain for example all 9 holds would be full, but due to low density and high volume the ship is really only part loaded. Hull stress levels would be minimal relative to maximum allow stress. Re do your sums for iron ore and every other hold would be loaded and if you looked in there would be relatively small volume due to it very high density. So you can end up fully loaded very quickly, quicker than you might want, allowing time to drop out ballast etc. with an ore cargo your hull allowable stress would be up at say 90%. The ship pictured above was 125000 tons and was often loaded with ore in under 24 hours. One place in Brazil Sepitiba could load you in 12 hours. Seven Islands in Canada was very quick too. Iron ore dropping over 100 feet would possibly have an impact on the steel.

Now take that boat out in all weathers and sea conditions its going to flex like a flexi thing, break a bit of ice and a couple of load cock ups with previous cargos and cracks become the norm! The North Atlantic is a harsh place in winter, bad enough to lift the prop of a 900ft, 1200000 ton ship out the water, enough to trip out the engine on overspeed.

 

[Morrisman]

As a generalisation a bulk carrier may have say 9 holds each carrying approximately the same volume of cargo. Before loading any cargo a loading plan is drawn up, taking in to account how much fuel, water etc is on board, time of the year and location. With grain for example all 9 holds would be full, but due to low density and high volume the ship is really only part loaded. Hull stress levels would be minimal relative to maximum allow stress. Re do your sums for iron ore and every other hold would be loaded and if you looked in there would be relatively small volume due to it very high density. So you can end up fully loaded very quickly, quicker than you might want, allowing time to drop out ballast etc. with an ore cargo your hull allowable stress would be up at say 90%. The ship pictured above was 125000 tons and was often loaded with ore in under 24 hours. One place in Brazil Sepitiba could load you in 12 hours. Seven Islands in Canada was very quick too. Iron ore dropping over 100 feet would possibly have an impact on the steel.

Now take that boat out in all weathers and sea conditions its going to flex like a flexi thing, break a bit of ice and a couple of load cock ups with previous cargos and cracks become the norm! The North Atlantic is a harsh place in winter, bad enough to lift the prop of a 900ft, 1200000 ton ship out the water, enough to trip out the engine on overspeed.

There are some interesting videos of oil tankers with a fixed camera down the centre of the vessel, showing just how much it flexes and twists in big seas.

Biggest ship I ever worked on was only about 120 metres long, we tended to just get thrown around instead of flexed.

 

[addjunkie]

There are some interesting videos of oil tankers with a fixed camera down the centre of the vessel, showing just how much it flexes and twists in big seas.

Biggest ship I ever worked on was only about 120 metres long, we tended to just get thrown around instead of flexed.

That one above had a box girder up ( water tight openings) each side along the double bottoms. Inside it was used a a pipe tunnel. There was like a railway line for moving valves and tools up and down. In rough water you could look along the lines and watch them bending.

 

[minimutly]

That one above had a box girder up ( water tight openings) each side along the double bottoms. Inside it was used a a pipe tunnel. There was like a railway line for moving valves and tools up and down. In rough water you could look along the lines and watch them bending.

Squeaky bum time..

 

[More Amps]

There's a good article in Wikipedia on the Edmund Fitzgerald which gives a fair bit of detail on the construction, use and possible causes of the accident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald

 

[Erie Fred]

There's a good article in Wikipedia on the Edmund Fitzgerald which gives a fair bit of detail on the construction, use and possible causes of the accident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald

I thought I put that in the top of the OP.

 

[addjunkie]

Squeaky bum time..

Yes and no….they are designed to flex and bend. If they didnt they would break up far more quickly. Look at air liner wings for example. Its fairly simple to bend a ship just by getting your loading sequences wrong! Or overload a ship by bending it to go deep at the ends keeping the loading lines in the middle high.

Cracking can be exaggerated by frequent bending plus vibrations generated by banging into big seas. Waves are very powerful things.

 

[northwest]

Waves are very powerful things.

When you are on board quite a biggish ship, a frigate for example and she rears up in heavy seas and then comes crashing down and almost stops against the oncoming sea you realise just how insignificant you are and just how powerful that sea is.

 

[Morrisman]

That one above had a box girder up ( water tight openings) each side along the double bottoms. Inside it was used a a pipe tunnel. There was like a railway line for moving valves and tools up and down. In rough water you could look along the lines and watch them bending.

I worked on a Cold War era Russian ship once, MV Baki, built like a tank, as were all Russian ships built in those days. It had sea water deluge system for washing radioactive material off the superstructure, and lots of electrical systems sealed in boxes, that didn’t appear on any of the ships diagrams and paperwork. And all fuel tanks were double skinned, not built into the hill.

Most mysterious thing, for us, was a small tunnel down in the bilges. We could see it from a hatch under the decking in the engine room, it was about 18” square and seemed to run the length of the ship, and there was a room with a light at the far end, that we could not find for love nor money, it was sealed off somewhere in the bow. We could see that using binoculars. Nobody was ever brave enough to crawl down it to see what it was for. There were no rails, just the ribs of hull to climb over, every 18”. Which is very unusual for a ship, normally 24”.

It was a sad ship, I was the only Brit, and one Scot, the rest were Russians, or Polish seamen.

 

[Morrisman]

When you are on board quite a biggish ship, a frigate for example and she rears up in heavy seas and then comes crashing down and almost stops against the oncoming sea you realise just how insignificant you are and just how powerful that sea is.

And trying to sleep in your bunk, up in the bows, when you’re literally weightless one second, as the you crest a wave, then 300kg ground into the mattress when the boat hits down hard.
Oddly enough, I was only sea sick about 3 times in 24 years offshore. My usual reaction to rough seas was to hate coffee. Just the smell would make me feel ill. Nothing else, just coffee.