Oerlikon citoline

[bgarvanman]

Hi there

Just got a good deal at a trade show on a Oerlikon Citoline 2500 single phase compact.
Anybody got any opinions on the Brand etc, looks well made and welds fine, may also get a AC/DC tig machine.

PS anybody hear much about INE (Italy) or ESS (German) machines ??

regards
Denis

 

[irondarren]

got a pic of the machine?

 

[bgarvanman]

Ya here it is !

 

[Hitch]

Oerlikon has been about sometime.
I wouldnt regard it as high as Esab or kemppi, but they seem to be capable machines.
Used a 300a single phase mig, not bad, a little 'fluffy' though.
Used to have an acdc tig too, nice simple machine, nothing overly complicated, and nice smooth arc.


As for INE, they make some nice machines, i missed out on a cracker the otherday, mig,tig,mma all in one unit
Seems like quality gear, although never used one.

 

[Ciaran-Rob]

At work i use a big 3 phase oerlikon welder 410 amps i think it is. Great machine! As for INE i hear they're great.

 

[AVENLEY 10]

Have been using an INE MGT200 mig/tig mma inverter for over three years excellent bit of kit thought it was German when I first see it.Their conventional migs are old school in design built like a brick s..thouse with high duty cyles.Told that they sell well in southern Ireland.

 

[AVENLEY 10]

Oerlikon were an Irish company owned by Unidare and made some excellent welding rods superior to the much overated ESAB rods but are now part of air liquide/saf a French gas/equipment supply group company like BOC

 

[weldequip]

Oerlikon went BUST! Their 'superior' electrodes being farmed out to China, with consequent returns en mass... they were then bailed out by Air Liquide!
weldequip

 

[AVENLEY 10]

Typical! when I started in the industry Oerlikon rods were highly regarded and you still hear comments like Oerlikon made good rods but the boss would not pay the price so from a accountants point of view going to China made sense but we all know accountants know sod all about the value of things but always know the price of everything.Twenty years ago I still say that a Oerlikon Fincord M would beat almost any mild steel rod on the market at a comparible price ESAB included

 

[irondarren]

So many welding rods are product of china now. and almost all are rubbish. Trouble is it normally has an effect on what you are welding.

 

[Welderpaul]

Are the Murex branded plain white box rods that they produce Chinese - cos they are not as good as the red box Murex ones. Or am i imagining things?

 

[irondarren]

Just looked on the murex website couldn't see no mention of them, probaly knock of ones made in china roflmao. As far as im aware the esab and im assuming the murex rods are made in the esab factory in hungry.

 

[AVENLEY 10]

Murex did have their rods made at one time by a Portugese manufacturer called Electro Arco but even this company has set up a factory making mig wire in India.This should work in theory as long as they have their own personnel running the factory and doing regular quality control.With Chinese and Indian products what has to be put into the equation is that you will not be getting the latest technology because most large corporations have been producing in China for at least a decade.The likes of Caterpillar,Liebherr,Sony etc have all built factories to produce older designs for the local market,also most of the old equipment from insolvencies or factory clearances seems to end up here, for example you may like the price of that Chinese electric motor but it could be produced on the old Brush Motors equipment that was exported there when they went under so you have a motor that is made to a 20/30 year design on worn out equipment that will cost you more than your intial saving in its life time through energy inefficency or may last six months through poor quality control.The other downside is you may end up with a clone that was copied or came out of one of the above factories through the back door using inferior materials and this is a big problem for companies producing copywrited goods in these countries because the guilty individuals have a knack of disappearing and setting up elsewhere so who do they sue.

 

[bgarvanman]

Should Have Bought the ESAB

Looks like my CITOLINE 2500m has just fried its pcb board !!

A resistor between wire feed pot and cap looked hotter than the arc itself at one point.

Supplier sending on new one, bit concerned though as the machine has done very little work and only 4 months old, had a good poke around in the cabinet and discovered that Air Liquide farms out its production to a company called Welding Operations Services, Slovakia no less !
This is now the same for Cemont, Saf, Fro, and Oerlikon all under the Air Liquide group.

dinny

 

[weldequip]

Well if it's any consolation it can happen with any equipment, whatever make or price... the Citoline ceratainly aren't Slovakian prices though & I'd be more peeved at that
weldequip

 

[bgarvanman]

I agree Weldequip,

Certainly marketed as one of the "Big Players" which goes back to the discussion on welding rods and the "Oerlikon" name which has had a long respected reputation here in Ireland over the years.

Looking inside the cabenet first thought was o look a Telemechanique
contactor, on closer inspection it was a made in china copy, to be fair its probably not that bad, i was surprised that the board was not shielded from external "dirty" airflow in any way though.

 

[AVENLEY 10]

Welding operations services ,not sure but sounds like the company that makes Murex saffire and Butbro gas equipment in Chech Republic or Slovakia
Private equity so not much investment just keep making the same thing and if we can make it cheaper and it sells all the better.

 

[bgarvanman]

Did a search for welding operations services Slovakia and a company which seems to be owned by air liquide turns up.

On closer inspection of the pcb board i can see the old cemont insignia, which was used before air liquid took over, so basically its a cemont machine, which to be honest I dont know a lot about, but as weldequip mentioned priced like a murex/esab !!

starting to wonder what a portamig shipped to Eire would have cost me after all

dinnyb