Petrol generator build 3 phase

[henry Kadzielski]

Since I commented about building one so lets start a build thread.
This is the engine just arrived two days ago, now when time permits will be doing the construction. Have arranged to electronic govenor today and the alternator yesterday. Also arranged to wheels for it to be able to move it around.

Have taken to covers off today to have a look at where the inductive pickup will be positioned. So all looks good, and things are moving slowly.

 

[WorkshopChris]

Will be watching this build with interest, sound like a good project.

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Will be watching this build with interest, sound like a good project.

Thanks for that, did actually make the bracket for the inductive pickup yesterday and bolted it in. Also started assembling the engine back together, as if it is left bits will go missing and I do forget how it went together in the first place. The kids, when they come also say 'whats that for or where dose this go / do'. Next thing bits missing

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Well good morning gents again.
As luck would have it, if it's not in a hurry then everything turns up early. The alternator arrived today, well and behold the bearing mob had the coupling and the wheels for the troley, I got the alli for the rollover frame. The base plate I have in the material rack, so now there is no excuse not to start. Well won't be able to do that much as going out on site for about 4 days on Monday, so have to pack all the needed equip prior to leaving. Anyway will see what can be done tomorrow.

Alternator, coupling how it will be together

Wheels for the base. Two fixed and two casters for ease of manouvering

Two things left to arrange, fuel tank and electrical output connections and switchgear

 

[normspanners]

does that alternator have two bearings if so Would you not be better with a flex coupling to help cut down noise etc but the main thing is having 4 bearings in line, it is SO easy to get it out of line. and overload a bearing,
my small petrol3 phase genny has a close coupled alt and therefore no bearing loading.

 

[henry Kadzielski]

does that alternator have two bearings if so Would you not be better with a flex coupling to help cut down noise etc but the main thing is having 4 bearings in line, it is SO easy to get it out of line. and overload a bearing,
my small petrol3 phase genny has a close coupled alt and therefore no bearing loading.

The problem you have is 'availability', close coupling is the best however not available in this case. Smaller alternators are available in tapered shafts that would fit to the crankcase, however this engine is only available in parallel shaft, so that is impossible. Also tapered shaft alternators are only small outputs so again is no good in this case. What I am building is very much outside the norm so is not catered for, we then have to make do with what is available.
To answer you question 'yes' the alternator is two bearing. The coupling is taper lock, spider and yes it has to be setup quite accurately as with any deflection in the alignment will increase the wear in the spider itself. These couplings don't generate any noise due to the rubber cushioning and are also easy to replace. I have also used tyre coupling in the past but had problems with the tyre tearing eventually due to the shock loading of larger electric motor starting. The last small set I built was 10kva 3 phase diesel, this is 20+kva in petrol.

 

[Maker]

Ohh is it one of these?

I thought (As did Norm) that it was a solid coupling. Zooming right in I can just see a gap between the two parts.

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Yep exactly one of those

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Well it's lunch time and work so far this morning.
Cut the base out from 12mm 5083 alli drilled the holes for the wheels to mount and bolted on the wheels.

Since the alternator is two bearing and the whole show is coupled together I will have to weld in some stiffeners under the base so it dosn't move

This is the base plate for the alterantor so it aligns with the out put shaft from the engine. I will have to mill about .5mm off it so it dose. Haven't decided whether to weld it in or bolt it down to the base.
All 12mm 5083. As I had it why not use it

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Just an update.
Welded in the bottom support so nothing moves when the heavy bits are added.

'Francis' did her first tip today, probably the truth be known I may have been the contributing factor. Can't complain she has done about a roll and a half on this tip

How I managed to blow the top off it I don't know. I think on startup shroud very close and some spatter got caught up inside and shorted the tip to the shroud, shroud was up against the alli to be welded. It is still good, could probably use it again

No more today just realised got the wrong taper lock. Should have been 1 7/16" not 1 7/8" I did tell the bearing place equivalent to 36.5mm but s**t happens.
Here is the job so far on the roller stand and can be pushed around

Milled the alli 'packer ' under the alternator. Had to remove about 1.75mm, end result is probably about .2mm out but will not know until the correct taper lock comes. Regardless .2mm is well inside the tolerance of these couplings. Won't be doing any more for about a week as out on site, however when I return and jobs are quiet will do the next stage

 

[Richard.]

Hope your gonna paint it a pretty colour and call it a cool name

 

[normspanners]

I have also used tyre coupling in the past but had problems with the tyre tearing eventually due to the shock loading of larger electric motor starting.

Ah I understand the coupling now, it did appear to be a solid unit, we use tyre couplings on the pumps with large diesels but with a pump there isnt the shock loading that you will be experiencing quite correctly, heat is a good indication of misalignment in couplings, but the noise I was referring too was the noise generated by misaligned shafts 'drumming' the chassis because noise after all, is energy wasted somewhere.
Looking good BTW.

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Thanks gents.
Richard, it already has a name 'Geraldean' the generator, she joins a long list of girls that help me and travel out on site with me. The wife was OK with a couple of girlfriends, but she is getting annoyed with the amount of them, she is also not so happy that I spend more time with them as I do with her. Geraldean will be painted white as with most of my generators, however the engine and frame will be as is.
I've got to get the C/B load cell and the switched outlets along with the fuel tank, then I can construct the mounts for them. There is also a 50mm pipe rollover frame to be welded onto the base and a mount for the battery, so so far did more than anticipated, but now it will stop, till the next jobs are completed.

Ah I understand the coupling now, it did appear to be a solid unit, we use tyre couplings on the pumps with large diesels but with a pump there isnt the shock loading that you will be experiencing quite correctly, heat is a good indication of misalignment in couplings, but the noise I was referring too was the noise generated by misaligned shafts 'drumming' the chassis because noise after all, is energy wasted somewhere.
Looking good BTW.

Yes you understand what I mean and it is a problem with gensets, which is why I am going this way. I have not done one like this as most of the sets are single bearing diesel sets and are close coupled. We cannot always get what we want, so there is more than one way to skin a cat

 

[normspanners]

How about rubber mounts for the engine on a wide cradle with the rubber mounts out either side of the chassis /engine, it would help with stopping drumming noise and the coupling would allow for the movement.

 

[normspanners]

Also could you utilize the ally bracing under the chassis as the fuel tank, the bottom would need filling over with an ally sheet obviously but that would make a useful size tank, it would be out of the way, make the chassis stronger and less likely to flex also keeps the weight down low, ok you would need a small pump but many genny's have them as standard anyway.
Any filling and spilling would then be below most ign sources IE hot exhausts alternators etc . Just remember to put a drain point just in case.
PS
I have just looked n she has got a fuel pump anyway.

 

[henry Kadzielski]

How about rubber mounts for the engine on a wide cradle with the rubber mounts out either side of the chassis /engine, it would help with stopping drumming noise and the coupling would allow for the movement.

Nornally when I construct a genset, it is on a solid base and there is no rubber mounting separate from the alternator to the engine, regardless of the coupling we want the coupling to move the least amount. So in this case the rubber mounts are the wheels, they will not transmit any vibration to the ground where the set sits. Also the petrol engine will vibrate much less that the diesel. This also being a V twin also runs smother.

Also could you utilize the ally bracing under the chassis as the fuel tank, the bottom would need filling over with an ally sheet obviously but that would make a useful size tank, it would be out of the way, make the chassis stronger and less likely to flex also keeps the weight down low, ok you would need a small pump but many genny's have them as standard anyway.
Any filling and spilling would then be below most ign sources IE hot exhausts alternators etc . Just remember to put a drain point just in case.
PS
I have just looked n she has got a fuel pump anyway.

Yes I could do that but that is not what i was interested in, didn't have, don't have and won't have the notion to use the bottom support for a fuel tank. I am just going the use a plastic outboard type fuel tank, about 25 liters and be mounted up over the top of the alternator. And YES this engine dose have a fuel pump so yes, but no. I will be making this so the tank can come out if required. Anyway won't be getting back to this till the end of the week at best.