Robot welding

[Argonjoe90]

Anybody got any positive feedback from working with robot welders. We've had one at work for years and barely used it because the work we do 8s not suited to it, it should never been bought. And the hobs we do use it for are so simple that there is no need to use such heavy machinery. Others I've spoke to have all said there crap unless in car industry etc... wondered if anyone on here had any views?

 

[rtbcomp]

@Robotstar5 might know a bit

 

[matt1978]

Robotic welding can be used on many applications, its not only good for Automotive, really its good for anything repetitive. Regardless of material or thickness. As long as the joint fit up is always consistent and the number of components warrants the investment, robots are rarely a bad thing.

That's not to say however that the Robot installation at your company is any good, it could of been wrongly spec'd, badly programmed or both.

 

[Richard.]

Quite agree Matt Robotic welding is an excellent form of high productivity welding of repeat parts and components.
The jig and component consistency is key to robotic success. It will weld exactly where it's told to weld for as long as it's told to weld. Op it's not just the automotive industry where these things shine it's any industry where you can feed it parts without it causing a bottle neck.
Robots not only give you speed but they give you quality. They don't stop half way through a run because there glove is singed. They don't sneeze and throw the weld up the side wall.
They don't ask for a new speedglas every year lol.
They are however not best for things like one off parts. They don't know how to compensate for a slightly miss matched joint or wider gap.

 

[Argonjoe90]

I agree that for repetitive work it will be more productive if the jig and folded parts are exactly the same each time but we work with 1mm to 3mm mostly. I think the work our management want on the robot is better suited to hand welding. As for correct programming, I program it so it's bang on ha.

 

[Robotstar5]

Anybody got any positive feedback from working with robot welders...

Me I've worked with them since 1980 (so I'm probably biased) what make robot do you have?

 

[Argonjoe90]

Motoman

 

[Robotstar5]

Robots not only give you speed but they give you quality. They don't stop half way through a run because there glove is singed. They don't sneeze and throw the weld up the side wall.
They don't ask for a new speedglas every year lol.
They are however not best for things like one off parts. They don't know how to compensate for a slightly miss matched joint or wider gap.

You'd be surprised, Motorman developed a system in the 80's that used feedback from the weldset (may have been Hobart?) so the robot would speed up or slow down to keep a consistent weld on a varying gap.

ABB developed the lasertrak system to find the start point of a weld and which direction it had to go, but was quite basic compared with todays offerings.

These days a camera can map the components and tell the robot where they are.

 

[matt1978]

I agree that for repetitive work it will be more productive if the jig and folded parts are exactly the same each time but we work with 1mm to 3mm mostly. I think the work our management want on the robot is better suited to hand welding. As for correct programming, I program it so it's bang on ha.

As you know, the Robot only moves the torch from A>B, the thickness of the material is irreverent to the Robot, there are 1000's of Robots used in presswork which is typically pretty thin, but the fit up and joint configuration has to suit Automation. Maybe its the welding machine that is a bit flakey or the way it has been set which doesn't suit?

 

[Robotstar5]

Motoman

I've only worked on spot welding Motorman robots (KRC controllers) most of my MAG welding experience has been with ABB and Fanuc. Does the Motorman have an integrated weld controller so you can program the weld data while teaching the movements?.

I did a bit about robot welding here

 

[Argonjoe90]

We use it mainly for fusion tig welding so as soon as a tiny gap comes along then it's **Language**ed. We don't make no were near the quantities to benefit from robotic welding even if we got it to work ha.

 

[Argonjoe90]

I've only worked on spot welding Motorman robots (KRC controllers) most of my MAG welding experience has been with ABB and Fanuc. Does the Motorman have an integrated weld controller so you can program the weld data while teaching the movements?.

I did a bit about robot welding here

Yes it has a separate hand control linked to the mag set

 

[matt1978]

Robotic Tig is even more demanding on the fit up. Maybe why your experiencing issues if the fit up is not consistent esp on that thickness

 

[Robotstar5]

Robotic Tig is even more demanding on the fit up. Maybe why your experiencing issues if the fit up is not consistent esp on that thickness

It was also a nice little earner for us, one customer programmed the weave function using the base axis instead the wrist movement (no sniggering at the back) which would burn out the motor roughly every 6 months, we advised them how to program it properly, but they were quite happy to pay us to replace the motor each time.

 

[Robotstar5]

Robotic Tig is even more demanding on the fit up.

Most demanding fit up I worked on was plasma welding, the tolerances were minute, the weld parameters & travel speeds were critical.

 

[Richard.]

Most demanding fit up I worked on was plasma welding, the tolerances were minute, the weld parameters & travel speeds were critical.

Yeah I've played with that as a manual process.

 

[Argonjoe90]

Yeh the fit up is exactly the issue with sheets of material varying ever so slightly and so then then the fold will be different angle etc. Bosses won't listen and assume it's a problem with the welding set up. I will try get some photos of the job I'm doing today

 

[chris y]

We have automated welding (not robot in this case but it doesn't matter really) of tube seams TIG, no filler, stainless steel 0.6 and 0.8 thick, rolling sheets into tube and welding the join.

Fitup is critical but more so setting one of the edges perfectly before pushing the other against it. We make many thousands of tubes every day this way but the machines were very expensive and the clever engineering isn't in the welding its the repeatable setting of the part.

With robots some people think the robot is the clever bit, or the problem, but nearly always the robot just does exactly as its told and problem is with part tolerances and repeatable positioning.
Its the setup of the part that needs to be well engineered.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

The only time I have seen with my own eyes of robotic welding was in a Fire Extinguisher factory. The guide was explaining that at one point they were going to make it redundant due to the cost of setting it up for each welding job. But with a bot more investment, e.g. a rotating table and automatic loading unloading it has made a big increase in production.

But one site I used to visit, the site made brackets for power companies. They said their machine gathers dust as it does not do a good enough job. I got the impression they had to have one, as their rivals had one.

As @chris y said the set up is the important part and investigating what you want it to do and how to do it.

 

[Robotstar5]

The only time I have seen with my own eyes of robotic welding was in a Fire Extinguisher factory. The guide was explaining that at one point they were going to make it redundant due to the cost of setting it up for each welding job. But with a bot more investment, e.g. a rotating table and automatic loading unloading it has made a big increase in production.

Rotary tables (positioners) allow the robot better access, here's one capable of carrying 1600kg holding an alternator body destined to be hung under a train.