S45 Torch on a HF Pilot Arc start Machine?

[yoshiolazaga]

Hi all,

New member here hoping to seek some information if someone else has achieved this. Basically i want to replace my current torch (P80 HF pilot arc type) with a blowback torch such as a S45.

I've come across the thread of Jay1st saying that he has achieved this conversion with his chinese plasma source and has given him much more quality cuts on his CNC table, which is what I am also aiming for. He also mentioned that he had to do some "mods" to his plasma machine, although no further details were provided.

I've also read from other forums that this type of conversion was possible what requires the pilot arc signal to be properly timed in order to prevent the blowback torch from being fried.

If any one has any info regarding this type of conversion, I would be grateful.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Erie Fred]

What machine do you have ?
What is wrong with the p-80 torch ?

 

[yoshiolazaga]

What machine do you have ?
What is wrong with the p-80 torch ?

Hello!

I have a Plasmargon Cut55 on my CNC plasma table.

I am able to cut parts that are dimensionally accurate. My problem right now is the dross on the parts I cut. I spend way too much time cleaning up with a grinder and a pneumatic chisel.

I have read multiple article stating that this was normal with a P80 torch. People have suggested that increasing my travel speed would help with the dross but it seems that my machine is not powerful enough to pierce the metal to the speeds people are suggesting.

My most consistent parameters on my machine are as follows:

1.3mm Nozzle
1000 mm/min Travel Speed
55 amp
80v Arc Voltage

Jay1st mentioned in his one thread that the S45 conversion improved his dross situation and was able to double his travel speed.

 

[Erie Fred]

Have you tried the 1.1 nozzle ?
Are you running a water table ?

 

[yoshiolazaga]

Have you tried the 1.1 nozzle ?
Are you running a water table ?

Hello!

Yes I have tried the 1.1 Nozzle before and same problem where it does not pierce the metal at higher speeds. Also lots of dross when it does pierce.

I have tried both with and without water in the water table and the results remain pretty much the same with little to no difference.

 

[Erie Fred]

Hello!

Yes I have tried the 1.1 Nozzle before and same problem where it does not pierce the metal at higher speeds. Also lots of dross when it does pierce.

I have tried both with and without water in the water table and the results remain pretty much the same with little to no difference.

Water in the table, how high did you fill it ?
1/2" under the plate is just about right.

What air pressure on the p-80 torch ?

 

[yoshiolazaga]

Hello!

Gap from the water surface to the place is about 1/4".

During cutting air pressure is at 60-70 psi.

 

[Erie Fred]

Hello!

Gap from the water surface to the place is about 1/4".

During cutting air pressure is at 60-70 psi.

Well, that all looks good from here.
right air pressure, water up close under the part to effect a quench.

I still can't figure why your having slag problems.

I use a 4" wide masonry chisel, sharpened.
It's easy to simply slide it along the part to strip off slag.

I started with a p-80 on a TD pak 5 running 55 amps.
Am now running a Hypertherm max100 on the p-80.

Are you using the chisel in the direction to roll the slag off the edge ?
Same with grinding, I find sometimes the slag will come off in large pieces.

 

[yoshiolazaga]

For some reason the slag on my parts are sometimes almost welded to the part. It takes a significant amount of force to knock them right off. If I can't, I result to a grinding disc, which takes too much time.

Hypertherm is out of my budget as of the moment but definitely a goal I am working towards.

Care to share your parameters maybe I can give it another shot?

Thanks.

Well, that all looks good from here.
right air pressure, water up close under the part to effect a quench.

I still can't figure why your having slag problems.

I use a 4" wide masonry chisel, sharpened.
It's easy to simply slide it along the part to strip off slag.

I started with a p-80 on a TD pak 5 running 55 amps.
Am now running a Hypertherm max100 on the p-80.

Are you using the chisel in the direction to roll the slag off the edge ?
Same with grinding, I find sometimes the slag will come off in large pieces.

 

[Erie Fred]

For some reason the slag on my parts are sometimes almost welded to the part. It takes a significant amount of force to knock them right off. If I can't, I result to a grinding disc, which takes too much time.

Hypertherm is out of my budget as of the moment but definitely a goal I am working towards.

Care to share your parameters maybe I can give it another shot?

Thanks.

My hypertherm is an old HF start xformer model, I bought it used, I agree a new max 85 would be great but that's not happening.

Let me see what i have written down for the p-80, I was making my own chart as there are none I can find.
1000 mm/min looks like 39 ipm
what is the material thickness ?
what voltage reading on the THC ?

 

[yoshiolazaga]

Majority of what I cut is just 1/8" MS and 80v Arc voltage.

Any lower arc volatge and the torch can sometimes crash on the material. at around 85-90v it will have trouble piercing the material.

 

[Erie Fred]

Majority of what I cut is just 1/8" MS and 80v Arc voltage.

Any lower arc volatge and the torch can sometimes crash on the material. at around 85-90v it will have trouble piercing the material.

try 120-130 volts
slow down to 500 mm/min

 

[yoshiolazaga]

try 120-130 volts
slow down to 500 mm/min

Hello!

At that arc voltage the torch seems to be too high from the material, also kerf width is abnormally wide.

 

[yoshiolazaga]

I have to add, on thinner materials such as 1.5mm MS and thinner, the torch cuts perfectly without any dross at all!

 

[Erie Fred]

Hello!

At that arc voltage the torch seems to be too high from the material, also kerf width is abnormally wide.

"seems too high" is not an answer.
Kerf width abnormally wide ? what is the kerf width ?
You compensate kerf width in your program, settings are different for different thickness for that reason, look at a chart for pretty much any plasma torch, and you'll see the kerf change.

I have to add, on thinner materials such as 1.5mm MS and thinner, the torch cuts perfectly without any dross at all!

And as you go up in thickness, you raise the voltage & height.
and you slow down the speed.

 

[yoshiolazaga]

I say the torch seems too high because it is barely piercing and simply just gouging the material. I already mentioned that that increasing past 85v arc voltage the machine has problem piercing the material (1/8" MS).

 

[yoshiolazaga]

And as you go up in thickness, you raise the voltage & height.
and you slow down the speed.

When I am cutting 1.5mm MS I can run the cutting speed up to 4000-5000mm/min with barely any dross on the bottom face of the parts. But when cutting 1/8" or 3.2mm MS, it seems that the machine has alot harder time cutting through the material during movement and the arc tends to lag behind the torch.

This is what brought my attention to converting from P80 torch to S45 style because some have attested to almost doubling their cutting speed. I just need some details on the conversion.

 

[Erie Fred]

When I am cutting 1.5mm MS I can run the cutting speed up to 4000-5000mm/min with barely any dross on the bottom face of the parts. But when cutting 1/8" or 3.2mm MS, it seems that the machine has alot harder time cutting through the material during movement and the arc tends to lag behind the torch.

This is what brought my attention to converting from P80 torch to S45 style because some have attested to almost doubling their cutting speed. I just need some details on the conversion.

The ratio of speed to thickness is not linear.

1000 mm/min is about 40 ipm and when I had the p-80 on a 55 amp supply there was no way I could
cut that fast.
My notes show something around 15 ipm.

Dragging behind is a sure sign that you need to slow down.
Read some tech articles that show cut edge quality and what the drag lines mean.

Where is this u-tube video showing the conversion ?

 

[yoshiolazaga]

As I already mentioned, the conversion was done by Jay1st in this forum site.

Yes slowing down helps the machine pierce the material, but that does not solve my problem. Still loads of slag, even more when compared to higher cutting speeds.

Here is the link where the conversion was mentioned.

Generic 40A chinese cutter, improving perfs ?

Hi all, new here. I have a cheapo chinese made 40A cutter, bought it 5 years ago for some gouging job (modded some jeep axles) and now i've made a CNC plasma and it's fitted and running. But the OEM torch is a P80 with tips ranging from 1.3 to 1.5 mm ( 50 to 80 amp i guess) and i swapped the...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

 

[Erie Fred]

As I already mentioned, the conversion was done by Jay1st in this forum site.

Yes slowing down helps the machine pierce the material, but that does not solve my problem. Still loads of slag, even more when compared to higher cutting speeds.

Here is the link where the conversion was mentioned.

Generic 40A chinese cutter, improving perfs ?

Hi all, new here. I have a cheapo chinese made 40A cutter, bought it 5 years ago for some gouging job (modded some jeep axles) and now i've made a CNC plasma and it's fitted and running. But the OEM torch is a P80 with tips ranging from 1.3 to 1.5 mm ( 50 to 80 amp i guess) and i swapped the...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

That didn't show a link to how he did it.
Nor did he post any pix as requested.

The p-80 should do what you want, but don't let me stop you from this adventure.