Serious question about copper vs plastic pipe for plumbing.

[Nick67GT]

I am planning a substantial remodelling of a bungalow in the next couple of years or so. Since this will delete the vast majority of entire heating and plumbing system within the property, I want to try and manage any future maintenance / reliability issues.

Leaving aside any cost difference element for the time being, does anyone have evidence and/or knowledge for choosing one over the other?

In particular, I would be interested to hear about the reliability of one material over the other in terms of long term leak tightness (assuming any joints are consistently made) and how resistant each type is to the effects of pressure variations and thermal cycling over say, 20 years.

Ease of future modifications / repairs would also be a contributing factor.

 

[Kayos]

Modern, well fitted plastic is fine

The rodents do like to eat it though

I'd use copper, but I have the tools and experience to fit it, 22 years as a heating engineer

 

[Nick67GT]

Modern, well fitted plastic is fine

The rodents do like to eat it though

I'd use copper, but I have the tools and experience to fit it, 22 years as a heating engineer

So all things being equal, does the skill of working with copper based products make for a more reliable long term installation?

 

[Kayos]

So all things being equal, does the skill of working with copper based products make for a more reliable long term installation?

There has been plastic for 30+ years, yes you will get stories of failures and doom but badly fitted copper is just as bad as badly fitted plastic

I know you said leave it aside but the difference really is time and money, copper is expensive and slow, plastic pipe is cheap, good fittings are expensive but it's fast to install

All things being equal, I would want copper in my house but I would use plastic where it was suitable

I have seen a 54mm elbow blow off a boosted cold pipe, but it doesn't put me off copper in general, same as the odd failed plastic fitting I have seen doesn't put me off plastic

 

[KemppiFrog]

So all things being equal, does the skill of working with copper based products make for a more reliable long term installation?

Likely yes. But I use a Aquatherm for plumbing, quick and easy and much cheaper (and quicker) than copper (use that too, a bit) For my oil fired heating, I used plastic 'pex' stuff. Slide on brass fittings, takes reasionable radius curves and very quick. Copper is neater in close corners, but a bit slow and costs.. Plus, need hard solder, so oxy/butane..

With Aquatherm, the first job was a kitchen and two bathrooms, in a conversion. Half a day. But, it is a bit more bulky than copper. Plus, one needs the kit. That paid for itself on the first two jobs. Friend has had it for a 'few' years now, did a Chateau and some other jobs. Must ask for it back..

 

[striker]

I did my gaff with John guest speedfit. I used the inserts with two o rings, I can't say if it will last 20yrs, but it's guaranteed for 25yrs. I'm into my 16th year, not a single leak up to now.. everything from the stop cock on is speedfit apart from a metre or so either side of the boiler.
Hope this helps.

 

[mike os]

These days there really isn't any difference in terms of integrity and reliability,

If I was redoing mine from scratch it would be plastic from a central manifold, micro bore pipe and only copper from the boiler or if exposed

 

[Agroshield]

One small thing to factor into your choice is if a significant portion of the pipes will be exposed. For anything meeting that description, I would go for copper. It just looks neater as it is straight, end feed fittings are small and it is more robust.

Edit:

As you say you are remodelling, plastic can be very helpful as it is flexible. You can poke it through a smaller opening than a rigid 3m length of copper tube. You can feed it through a series of joists. Also, copper is only available in max. 3m lengths, so if you need to run more than that, it needs to be joined. A coil of plastic pulled through could save making a hole in a difficult location.

 

[brightspark]

if i was doing any plumbing work it would be all in copper even though the price is astronomical its well p[oven lasts for years and a lot neater no stupid leaks joints coming apart . ive worked in thousands of houses over the years and seen many a flooded house due to plastic being fitted. life is 2 easy for plumbers nowadays and chose ther cheapest and easy option as for boilers all they want to fit are combies less work and easier profit than fitting a conventional using y plan and a hot water cylinder and valves

 

[Nick67GT]

I did my gaff with John guest speedfit. I used the inserts with two o rings, I can't say if it will last 20yrs, but it's guaranteed for 25yrs. I'm into my 16th year, not a single leak up to now.. everything from the stop cock on is speedfit apart from a metre or so either side of the boiler.
Hope this helps.

Does this offer any problems in terms of earth bonding or do the regs account for this somehow?

 

[brightspark]

Does this offer any problems in terms of earth bonding or do the regs account for this somehow?

it saves you earth bonding the water from stop tap to electric service supply you cant bond plastic .everything should be rcd protected though

 

[angellonewolf]

copper all the way yes plastic is good but i can see it failing faster than copper if it does its easy to fix but will depend how it tends to fail if it blows off or as ive seen with copper most times you get a pin hole so will have a warning before a down pore water marks apearing on ceiling etc not sure how plastics tends to fail

 

[brightspark]

copper all the way off or as ive seen with copper most times you get a pin hole so will have a warning before a down pore water marks apearing on ceiling etc not sure how plastics tends to fail

catastrophically when a fitting blows off not marks the ceiling drops it more like

 

[Porkypine]

Another vote for copper, tbh most of my pipe fitting has been big old welded stuff 4in steel and above, but on odd occasions I've done "plumbing" I've used copper, I'd say plastic's too liable to failure

 

[Kayos]

catastrophically when a fitting blows off not marks the ceiling drops it more like

As above, I've seen more copper fitting blow off than plastic, including a 54mm copper elbow

 

[brightspark]

the only leak ive had in 40 years was from the shower connection on the nylon fitting and that wasn't much. 99 percent of my fittings are yorkshire soldered

 

[Trevorleach]

I have noticed modern copper pipe seems less coppery and thinner wall section than pipe of old?

 

[Porkypine]

As per Brightsparks comment.. Nice soldered joints is the way to go..

 

[brightspark]

the plumbing on my compressor is standard copper pipe a few compression fittings and a couple of soldered used it for 50 years now @ 150 psi never had a leak or tightened anything up

 

[dan treg]

i use both one advantage of plastic is potentially have less joints as can do continous pipe runs and is flexible . that said where it shows ie on radiatoes prefer copper upstands