Sip140 and new to welding

[Chrs]

Hello guys, i'm a model engineer / hobby clockmaker with no experience in welding. It's always been something I wanted to try. An engineering pal gave me a SIP140 and I'm struggling like hell.
Just pinched this pic of the web but mine is identical.

Firstly, people on here talk about setting the current but this isn't displayed on my machine. There is simply a min and max rotator to set the current. It doesn't even have end stops and spins in both directions continiuosly so I'm not even sure what is max and what is min. Is there any setup I can hook up to measure the current and display it?

I had a perminantly dark hand held mask and I've just ordered a auto darkening mask - I'm sure having two hands on the rod will help.

The rods I've purchased are ESAB 2.5mm 70-100A , E6013. - I totally admit I didn't know what I was asking for and just went into my local engineers supplies, told them my story and they gave me these. Are these ok?
Also, is this an AC only machine?

I also have another issue in that my workshop has a small consumer unit as does my main house consumer unit to power the workshop. The main consumer unit in the house has a 40amp fuse feeding the garage but obviously this is not the switch that is tripping. It's the switch on the consumer unit in the workshop linked to that socket. I'm guessing this is a lower max current but it's partly hidden so I need to find that out properly - can anyone suggest what ampage trip switch should be running the sockets that I'm going to plug the welder into? Would you go as far as to give it its own higher rated socket and trip?

Great forum and any help or advice you can give me on my setup would be greatly received. My hobbies are all on my web diary www.raynerd.co.uk - it certainly isn't a showcase, mistake are shown and all!

Thanks in advance

Chris

 

[rtbcomp]

Welcome to the forum.

Is there a scale on the top of the machine? Normally there is an arrow or something that moves along a scale as you wind the amps control. This control has multiple turns end to end.

You should be OK with those rods.

It is an AC machine - known as a "buzz-box".

You could use a clamp meter to measure the current, but you'd have difficulty reading it as you weld. one that can hold the maximum reading would be best. To be honest I wouldn't bother.

 

[Chrs]

Hi, thanks for the reply. No scale that I can see, it's just a solid steel top and sides!

 

[rtbcomp]

Strange, here are a couple of images I've lifted from the 'net - the scale is the line on the top right of the cover

 

[Richard.]

I'm suprised it's got no scale or even that it doesn't stop turning. 2 options 1 measure the out put current as suggested above or simply plug it in and strike em up. Get someone to adjust it while your welding. I'd personally measure it with a meter if possible and mark up on the machine what position gives what value

 

[rikrobson]

the adjustment shouldn't "spin" it moves the core of the transformer inside. it should be qite stiff and it will stop as the core will hit either end of its travel. the current gauge is usually a thin slit window with a bit if metal behind attached to the core of the transformer

 

[skotl]

the adjustment shouldn't "spin" it moves the core of the transformer inside. it should be qite stiff and it will stop as the core will hit either end of its travel. the current gauge is usually a thin slit window with a bit if metal behind attached to the core of the transformer

I was going to suggest that, too. The dial should be pretty stiff to move so, if it's not, then it's likely that the dial is not fixed properly to the armature.

The "gauge" is nothing but a metal indicator with a hole above it - see this pic;

 

[Chrs]

Oops!! The case is all rusted up and the viewing window black - slightly ignorant of me to not notice it but it is there. I've spent today painting it and tomorrow will replace the clear plastic window. I'll then need to remark the scale.

If anyone could give more details of measuring the current I'd appreciate it. I am not bad at small digi electronics and have multimeters but presume this would be a different setup. How and where exactly is the current measured? I know a clamp meter is mentioned in a post earlier.

Chris

 

[skotl]

Oops!! The case is all rusted up and the viewing window black - slightly ignorant of me to not notice it but it is there. I've spent today painting it and tomorrow will replace the clear plastic window. I'll then need to remark the scale.

If anyone could give more details of measuring the current I'd appreciate it. I am not bad at small digi electronics and have multimeters but presume this would be a different setup. How and where exactly is the current measured? I know a clamp meter is mentioned in a post earlier.

Chris

Aha! Good work
On mine, the plastic has been removed - probably for similar reasons.

It should be pretty linear, probably starting at around 10-15A and going up to 140.

 

[rtbcomp]

That's good.

See if someone can post a decent photo of theirs, download it, resize and stick it onto your welder. You could even laminate it.

 

[Chrs]

That's good.

See if someone can post a decent photo of theirs, download it, resize and stick it onto your welder. You could even laminate it.

That would certainly be the best way to go. If it is linear, I could easily scale it. I presume it is there as only guide.

 

[rtbcomp]

It' is only a guide really, on my Cebora the scale is calibrated in amps and electrode size. You could always add the latter to the scale if you're going to produce one on a computer.

 

[rikrobson]

to be honest I don't think it would be that accurate to begin with. As these boxes need to be set based on the electrode size you are using, maybe start in the middle with a 2.5 rod and adust from there until you get it running right and base the scale on that. i can post a pic of my silverline tonight, it should be near enough to give you a rough idea. I has amps on one side and elctrode size on the other.

 

[Chrs]

Rikrobson - a picture would be excellent! Thanks

 

[Bill Edwards]

I certainly wouldn't bother trying to actually measure the output current.

Just put the scale up and be aware that
a) it's a rough guide
b) you rarely know what you want anyway!

The figures on rod packets are a guide, you have to fine tune yourself.

I've a couple of these old 'AC buzzboxes'. The rods you have will work fine with this welder, but do keep them dry as they absorb moisture and this makes welding much harder.
These old welders are quite reliable as there isn't anything to go wrong, they aren't as easy to use as some machines but are perfectly capable of producing sound welds. I've welded digger buckets, structural pillars etc with them, the big issues (aside from their weight) is the duty cycle. They overheat very readily so are limited to small projects with lots of tea breaks while waiting for them to cool down!

With regards to your welding, post up pictures of your efforts and we can hopefully give you some helpful criticism.

 

[Chrs]

Thanks for your reply Bill. I`ve been doing some reading here on this forum and it certainly seems like these old buzz box get the least favoured reviews. I`m struggling but a lot of it is down to practice. Maybe I will look to purchasing a reasonably priced DC welder.

 

[Bill Edwards]

The cheapest DC inverter that I could recommend would be http://www.weldequip.com/parweld-xti160.htm
Or, for around half the price you can get http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165354A-M...118?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43c3ae940e

The cheapest are a gamble as if it goes bang you certainly can't expect any help once it's too late to open a dispute with PayPal and the item would then be throwaway.

Inverters are nicer to weld with, but whether to splash out would have to depend on what you're wanting to do and how 'into it' you are.
If you don't have any real work for one and more or less want to have a play and learn a good skill, and the odd little repair or project, then I wouldn't be in such a hurry to buy an inverter.
Sure, they're better to use, better to transport, and if you get to that level you can use a wider range of welding rods too, but as you're already figured it's mostly down to the chap actually using it.

As I said, I used buzz boxes for years and they worked. Sure, I prefer my high spec inverter now I've bought one, but I've also picked up the lead from the buzz box and switched it on for a little job because it's been to hand, rather than walking to a car to get the 'fancy' one. Because they are OK!

 

[skotl]

The cheapest DC inverter that I could recommend would be http://www.weldequip.com/parweld-xti160.htm
Or, for around half the price you can get http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165354A-M...118?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43c3ae940e

The cheapest are a gamble as if it goes bang you certainly can't expect any help once it's too late to open a dispute with PayPal and the item would then be throwaway.

Inverters are nicer to weld with, but whether to splash out would have to depend on what you're wanting to do and how 'into it' you are.
If you don't have any real work for one and more or less want to have a play and learn a good skill, and the odd little repair or project, then I wouldn't be in such a hurry to buy an inverter.
Sure, they're better to use, better to transport, and if you get to that level you can use a wider range of welding rods too, but as you're already figured it's mostly down to the chap actually using it.

As I said, I used buzz boxes for years and they worked. Sure, I prefer my high spec inverter now I've bought one, but I've also picked up the lead from the buzz box and switched it on for a little job because it's been to hand, rather than walking to a car to get the 'fancy' one. Because they are OK!

Great points. I'm just an amateur, making nothing safety critical or structural, and my crummy old SIP does fine for me. If I spent a few hundred quid, I might do ~25% better but I don't think I need to. Get some practise with your new buzbox, Chrs, and see how you get on first, before spending owt more.

 

[Chrs]

Guys I have been really enjoying practice over the weekend but got to welding some ~ 2mm thick box section today and I blew a hole straight through!! I actually couldn't believe it. I'm using the 2.5mm rods, but do I need to reduce the current or different rods??

 

[R Kraft]

Could be several things,usually you try to use rods that are smaller in dia. than the thickness of what you are welding.
You should be using about 80A, and you may be traveling too slow.