sorry...another "pick holes in my weld" thread.

[Peloquin]

Hi folks. A mate has just dropped me a Cebora arc welder off. Im getting on well with mig and while mig is all we use at work id like to learn other toes of welding.
I read a bit on here and watched/read through the tutorials a few times then had a go.
Its a lot trickier to get the hang of than mig and I'm getting a lot of spatter.
The other thing i noticed is the sound... Its more like a hissing/buzzing than a crackling. Ive tried altering the power and using different rods.
Anyway..in no particular order of arrangement here are a few lines i did. All I've done I'd knocked the slag off and wire brushed them.
All criticism and advise very gratefully received.

 

[Jim Davey]

I'm not sure what rods you're using but the large lumps of spatter would suggest they are getting a bit too hot.

Some info that will help others to advise you is:

Rod make, type and size:

Ie. Lincoln, Gricon 6013 3.25mm

Polarity:

Electrode negative

Amps:

110

etc, etc.

Once all of the above is clear, someone will know what runs best for the particular rods you are using.

My guess would be you're a little too high on the amps, but before you worry too much about that concentrate on feeding the rod steadily and consistently and travel as smoothly as you can, not easy to begin with as the rod is always getting shorter but practice makes perfect. Depending on rods and machine you may be able to gently drag the rod a little along the plate once you've got an arc established, this helps a lot with smoothness as all you have to worry about then is travelling in a straight line.

 

[Peloquin]

Ok cheers. I've left the welder at work so will get some info tomorrow.
I know the rods are just a very cheap sort. Its a box of 3 sizes from aldi.
I'm going to get some decent ones as i guess its gonna be easier to learn using decent ones.

 

[PTvor]

I think you've maybe got the current too high and you are not maintaining a constant, tight arc. A long arc will have the arc foused on no partlcular spot and deposit metal all over the place producing a messy bead and a lot of spatter. As Jim says, with a lot of rods, you can drag them in light contact with the metal and the burnback of the wire into the flux takes care of the gap - one less thing to worry about.

You need to experiment with the current.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/arc-tutorial.htm

Watch the weld pool form and let that dictate the speed of travel.

It takes practice to lay down a straight, even bead and these look pretty damned good for a first attempt.

I bought a packet of Aldi rods out of curiosity. They ran OK on an inverter but I kept losing the arc with a buzz box. They couldn't do anything positional. I assume the Cebora arc welder you are using is an air-cooled transformer (buzz box) not an inverter or oil-cooled type.

Some people on here have said one box of Aldi rods is fine, another terrible, which is another common problem with off-brand rods.

 

[Peloquin]

Cheers, yeah, its an air cooled jobbie.
I do a fair amount of mig work so want over worried about the line work but it was a lot trickier than i expected.
I'm planning on staying over after work for a couple of hours for a few days and just practice till i use up all the rods.
The power setting its just a wheel that moves an arrow thing, no numbers to work from so its pretty much guess work.

 

[PTvor]

Usually as you turn the screw which moves a piece in and out of the transformer, there's a pointer on a scale on the top which moves with it, indicating the current. There's often a plastic window on the top of the machine to view the pointer. Sounds like the numbers have come off yours.

However, they're only a rough guide. You can't set it to 80A on those scales and that's that for a 2.5mm rod. You have to see how the rod runs and fine tune. Different brands of rods can like different currents.

If your scale is missing, then experiment til you get a 2.5 running nicely, no spatter, and not a cold weld, and put a mark for 2.5. Do the same for 3.2s so you can switch between the two without so much hassle.

 

[Peloquin]

I'll do that. Thank you. Good idea.
I'll try get some pics tomorrow of the machine. I'm guessing with it being Cebora its not going to be a bad machine, my Cebora 130 migs seems a decent bit of kit for the size anyway.
Cheers.

 

[shenion]

Get some name brand rods. No-name rods can be difficult on even a decent welder. They tend to vary and the slag is difficult to remove.

The machine should work ok, the biggest issue may be the duty cycle. What amp range is the model? If it is 140 or above it should be good to use.

As others have said, you're doing ok. Once you get the feel, it gets easier. Dragging 6013's 2.5mm or less is almost necessary.

 

[Peloquin]

Well this is the welder and what i can see on the top. There is no paint left on it and it hadn't really been looked after very well but I'll clean it up and get a new wheel thing for it, also needs 6" chopping of the cables to tidy them up.
Any info on the welder would be great, and if anyone can point me to the chart thing that I've read should be on top to help me set the power that would be great.
Cheers folks.

 

[PTvor]

That poor chap has been in the wars. Looks like it's been kept somewhere horribly damp for a long time.

Do a search with Google for Cebora Mono welder and look at the images. Some of the links are to threads on here and a few members have them. You could PM them for a photo of the scale.

I think it goes up to 145A and down to 45A.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mono-Weld...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

But as I say the scales are only useful as a rough and ready reference. When you set the scale to 80A it will give the same current every time you set it, but whether it's actually 85 or 75 if measured is another story. You'd expect a 2.5mm rod to run properly at about that 80A mark, give or take, but you'd have to try it and tweak it. Different brands of rods vary a bit in the best current to run them at anyway. Some need the current to be spot on, others are quite tolerant. Generally, 3.2s seem to have a greater range than 2.5s and under.

 

[Rudi McAnichal]

I bought this Cebora welder new in 1974. It has been 100% reliable and has never cut out, probably because I rarely need to use more than three or four 3.2mm rods in one session.

The scale is marked from 40-145 amps, and I seem to remember that the OCV was supposed to be 48v.

It can be difficult to strike an arc. That is not just my lack of skill - a couple of real expert welders have borrowed my Cebora for site welding jobs, and both said the same thing. It is certainly not an ideal machine on which to learn MMA welding.

I have never measured either amps or volts but, judging from the way it performs, I guess the OCV may actually be even lower than 48v and that the current may be higher than is shown on the scale.

The Cebora has been in retirement when I bought an MMA inverter. Noise from the inverter is steady, like frying top quality bacon. Noise from the buzz box is like frying cheap rubbishy bacon, the sort that splutters and spits in your face the whole time.

Turn the current down and try striking the arc on a piece of scrap, before running it onto your work piece.

 

[Peloquin]

That's great, thank you.
Now i can at least try fire it up in the right ballpark instead of just randomly turning the crank and trying it.
Until i know how it feels/sounds at the right setting it more an exercise in moving my arm right.
Thanks again.

 

[Windy Miller]

I have an almost identical welder, bought new in the late 70's. I bought it from an advert in the Exchange and Mart for £50! It spent about 10 years travelling in the back of a van, and has lived in a damp garage for the last 20 years or so, and its in slightly better condition than yours. Only slightly though!

Overall, it's been very reliable, and I'd buy another one as a spare if I could. It's never cut out, but like Rudi, I only burn a few rods at a time. I don't remember ever having a problem striking an arc, but I always use good rods. Mainly oerlikons (sp?). I DID learn to weld using it!

I bought one for a mate a year or so back for about £30 and I was very surprised how quiet his one is. When I first turned it on, I thought it was a dud, as it was almost silent. Mine buzzes like mad, but this may be due to it being shaken about in a van for all those years. I forget how it sounded when it was new.

All in all a great little machine, but I think it's far better using decent rods. No chance what so ever of it burning 7018's reliably. Stick with good quality 6013's and you'll be fine with it.