Spray painting safety help please

[WillItEverRunAgain]

Hi all,

I want to spray a few panels of my '79 Spitfire. I may well want to go on to do a little more painting in the future too.

I am however a little confused about the types of paints available and the neccessary safety gear I need for each. My understanding so far is that there are 2 or 3 types of paint suitable for car spraying:

2 pack - contains lots of nasties. I would definately require an air fed mask etc.

water based - contains less nasties. Can I get away with a good respirator with replacement filter cartriges?

Then there's cellulose. Is this the same as water based or something else? And how nasty is it?

Also are there water based, non nasty versions of primer, base and clear coats? I have heard that the clear coat contains the same nasties as 2 pack. Is that the case?

Ideally I want to avoid using an air fed mask as my compressor wouldn't cope with that and the gun at the same time.

Any help from you knowledgeable chaps would be highly appreciated!

Steve

 

[Chickenjohn]

If you want to avoid using an air fed mask then Cellulose is the way forward for spraying a few panels, or even a whole car.

The primers used for water based and the clear coat also give off "nasties" and water based colour layer needs a heated spray oven to dry the paint.

 

[danelectro]

Yeah I'll second that CJ, go for Cellulose, great for newcomer, easy to get rid of "problems" and with a good polish it looks good.

Forget the nasty stuff steve, unless you're going to be doing a lot of paintwork, the costs of all the gear would be too much. And you have to consider your close neighbours, they don't want nasties floating around either!!

 

[WillItEverRunAgain]

Thanks to both of you.

I'm getting there I think but still just a little confusion....

It seems Cellulose Primer is the way to go. Cool.

When it comes to base and clear coats though are these also available as cellulose? I read a post linked to from the bottom of Chickenjohn's reply which was a similar question to mine and the answer was to use cellulose primer, water based base coat and a 1k clear coat.

What is the difference between water based base coat and cellulose base coat?

Is 1k clear the same as a cellulose clear?

Sorry for being dim but I'm totally new to all the different names for all these different types of paint!

Thanks!!

 

[Chipper]

2k, 1k, celly, synth enamel etc are different paint systems/types, each has a clear. (Or a "yellow" in some cases )

Cellulose is a type of paint that dries by solvent evaporation, as is 1k acrylic.
Waterbase also dries by evaporation, but needs heat & air movement to dry. You still need solvent primers and clears anyway.
2k dries by chemical action of the hardener/activator.

If you went for celly colour you wouldn't need clear, as std a Spit would be solid colour (I think? no metallics etc?), so no need for it, unless you've got something else in mind.

 

[WillItEverRunAgain]

Thanks Chipper. Great forum guys.

OK so Cellulose is the way to go for all coats but you're saying I won't need a clear.

Yes Spitty will be a solid colour, Brooklands Green, as it always has been so no I won't be bothering with metallics.

My only concern then is whether or not I'll get a good enough shine without a clear top coat and without the need for hours of polishing. I guess I'll just have to try it.

It sounds like you're saying that there is a cellulose clear if I need it anyway so I can always add a clear coat if I can't get the shine I want without it.

Thanks very much everyone. Awesome response in only a ferw hours.

Steve

 

[tux]

If you are using cellulose, the top coat should be mixed 1:1 with thinner, if you put a little extra thinner in your final coat (maybe 5-10%) it will flow out more easily and give a better finish from the gun. Just be wary that it will also be easier to get runs

 

[WillItEverRunAgain]

Thanks Tux

 

[paintpot]

do your car in cellulose,flat with 1200w,d Then apply one coat clear coat by upol.This will hold your gloss and save you keep upholding the gloss every week.it will also protect it from the sun ,and loosing its color.

 

[jaykay]

cellulose is a complete product and dont need clear.
and it will polish up just fine.

 

[Chickenjohn]

Thanks Chipper. Great forum guys.

OK so Cellulose is the way to go for all coats but you're saying I won't need a clear.

Yes Spitty will be a solid colour, Brooklands Green, as it always has been so no I won't be bothering with metallics.

My only concern then is whether or not I'll get a good enough shine without a clear top coat and without the need for hours of polishing. I guess I'll just have to try it.

It sounds like you're saying that there is a cellulose clear if I need it anyway so I can always add a clear coat if I can't get the shine I want without it.

Thanks very much everyone. Awesome response in only a ferw hours.

Steve

Whether you get a good gun finish depends on your skill level, much more than the type of paint. Celly is quite easy to wet flat and polish, but then to get a mirror finish you'd have to wet flat and machine polish any paint, 2K or water based/ clear coat.
Cellulose already has the gloss "lacquer" component in it - it has both the colour and the shine so no need for clear coats. I have found that using a quality Carnauba wax four times a year (after washing the car!) keeps cellulose looking shiny. As for whether a gun finish is what you will happy with depends on your skill level and expectations for the finish you want.

ANother point in your favour is that the colour your are painting is dark, you will be able to see the wet edge much better with a dark paint and judge it just right to get in the sweet spot between orange peel and runs. Get plenty of light in your workspace and only spray on a hot/warm dry day, 20C is good, 25C is ideal for spraying cellulose.

I find it easier to get it just right painting a dark colour and much harder than white for instance (guess what colour the car I'm restoring is now??, yes, white! )

 

[pedrobedro]

Also there are different qualities of thinners for cellulose which give different drying times and degrees of finish shine. You use cheap thinners for the primer and good quality nitro for the top coat, go for a medium flash time if you are not an expert painter as it gives more time for the paint to level out. 1:1 thinner is fine for the top coat and 50% overlap with your strokes so you don't get a dry line between them. Dark colours show imperfections more than light so take care with your preparation. If your paint is gloss finish you don't need lacquer.

 

[the snooper]

having read all the above, if you can afford an air fed mask and your compressor set up is up to the job then 2k is by far the best paint to use its more durable

 

[WillItEverRunAgain]

Hi again all,

Firstly a question re the Upol; is it full of nasty isocianates (or whatever they're called) and therefore will require me to use an air fed mask (which I'm trying to avoid because of an inadequate compressor)?

The next question relates to the cellulose. My local paint supplier (TRI in Burton on Trent) say that Cellulose has been deemed harmful to the environment and therefore they are unable to sell more than a small handful of colours. Am I limiting myself to these colours if I decide to go down the celly route?

Thanks again.

Steve

 

[WillItEverRunAgain]

Thanks all, I've only just realised there was a second page of reponses on this thread and therefore responded to 'paintpot'. Thanks to him and to everyone else who's replied since, particularly chickenjohn!

OK so it seems a clear coat is probably not required. I'll see what results I get. I am new to this spraying game so some practice will be required!

My only issue now is the supply of cellulose in a variety of colours. I will be doing my Spit in Brooklands but would like to do other cars in the future too. Anyone know of a decent place to buy it that will deliver? I'll go online to find some of course but recommendations are great.

Thanks Steve

 

[WillItEverRunAgain]

OK guys I've probably answered my own questions now. I'll put the info here so this thread can be even more useful to other people. I've found these guys:

http://www.classiccarpaints.com

They agree with you that top clear coats are not required and they provide a huge range of colours, primer and base coats and of course the thinners to go with them.

Safety-wise a respirator (as well as gloves, goggles and overalls) is all that is required. They also deliver which is useful as they're in Merseyside, a rather long way from me.

Hopefully I can now order some paint and have a go.

And hopefully my Spitty definately will run again!

Thanks everyone.

Steve

 

[jaykay]

where are you based????

 

[WillItEverRunAgain]

The Midlands. Near Leicester.

 

[tux]

If you want a supplier local to you, give Central Car Products a try. Very competitive on price and so far I have had no quality issues. They are on Crafton Street just off the Humberstone Road roundabout near the city.

 

[WillItEverRunAgain]

Thanks Tux!!