Stahlwerk TIG welder

[Henrik]

So, there's been some discussion on here lately about various suppliers to the "lower end segment" (shall we say) of TIG welders. Brands that have been mentioned are e.g. TigMig, Stamos (by Expondo), R-tech and Stahlwerk etc. All obviously from China, but with some European support (maybe, who knows).

I've been interested in TIG welders now for some time, to build small fuel / coolant swirl pots, exhausts etc, and just as it's a new toy for my pure hobby purposes.

As I'm a hobbyist, I don't want to spend thousands on a TIG welder, even if it may be better, and I also do not have a big enough power supply to run an old industrial style machine, which leaves me with only the chinese machines, or used European.

I've decided AGAINST European used, on the basis that I have no idea how they've been treated (and who buys an expensive European TIG to not use it as much as possible), and fixing one if it would go wrong would probably cost more to fix than a chinese welder.


So, which one to go for then? Obviously R-tech are UK based, but only with a 2 year warranty. Also the most expensive out of the bunch I looked at, by a fair margin. I'm also slightly put off by hearing how great the customer service is all the time - not sure that's a great endorsement for the reliability (this is just my opinion - you may disagree).

I looked into Stamos and TigMig, but IMO there's not enough reviews available for them yet, and the Stamos ones look a lot like the LTS ones on ebay, and I'm not interested in them. Expondo, who sell the Stamos set do however have the SIP AC/DC tig, but at close to half the price (at the time of writing 560 quid).

In the end, I did a lot of research on the Stahlwerk welders, which seem popular in continental Europe and Scandinavia (it's sold under the BenRoyal brand in Scandinavia and some other parts of Europe). I didn't turn up a lot of negative comments, and their warranty is supposably 5 years (no reason to doubt this, as the company has a lot of European outlets (again, under the brand name BenRoyal in certain regions).

I tried ordering through their web site (http://www.stahlwerk-schweissgeraete.de/), however you're better off contacting their customer support email, as the web site doesn't understand shipping to the UK (you'll get stuck). Customer support were helpful with my random questions about the product before and during the purchase, so so far so good in terms of customer service.

All in all, I ended up paying 686 pounds for the welder, some rods and other sundries, a new mask, a foot pedal and shipping to the UK. I must add here that if you use their ebay shop, you will pay significantly more, even if the ebay shop includes free shipping.

I'm not expecting the pedal to be any good, but for 40 euros, I don't really think it has to be. If it gets too annoying to use, I'll get something else instead.

Here's the welder I bought:
http://www.stahlwerk-schweissgeraet...acdc-tig-200-puls-s-welding-complete-set.html

The brief specs are: 200A @ 60% duty cycle, 155A @ 100% (I doubt I'll be up at these levels that often). AC frequency from 50 - 200HZ, and pulse frequency from 0.5-200Hz.


Once it gets delivered sometime next week, I will do a proper unboxing and see how I get on. I must stress that I'm not a heavy TIG user by any means, so the welder may not suit everyone (or indeed myself), but at less than 700 delivered, with a 5 year warranty it was too good to ignore. If I made money from welding, I'd probably look at something proper, but tbh even if I have to send the welder away and be without it for a month, that's not going to massively hurt me.

Flamesuit donned

 

[Henrik]

I should also point out that the few failures i could find related to this brand were all about the combo (ac/dc tig + plasma) machine, so I decided to stay well away from that type of machine.

 

[Henrik]

For reference, here's the stamos / expondo welder that looks IDENTICAL bar the colour to a SIP machine that retails for 1k+: http://www.expondo.co.uk/stamos-selection-aluminium-welder-225-a-230-v-pulse-2038?c=414
This was my second choice, but expondo only offer a 1 year warranty, and from my research on French and German forums, I get the impression that they'll try to wriggle out of any warranty (though this could be hearsay - who knows on the internet).

 

[bc30se]

All these considerations do not matter for the chinese machines, service is what counts, I have an R-tech style machine bought in Poland in the company that also sales on your market - fachowiec. It was serviced/replaced 3 times including that the first one I bought didn't work straight from the box. Each had problems with AC arc not being able to create a puddle although the material was very hot and the current as such seemed to be there. They company were always fast to react, they don't repair the machines, they will just send you new or change the internal components blindly and it takes no more than 2 days. Buy the one which has a good support or just stay with kempi/lorch. I am sure that for you guys the prices for brand ones are more acceptable than for us in Polandm even if the branded ones are indeed a bit more expensive you earn more so if I am to save for the brand one like 2 years for a hobby use it doesn't make sense. If it were 3 / 4 months I would never look at chinese even if I were to weld only once a week. Sometimes I am just surprised that although you seem to have prospective purchase power for the brand one, you choose the chinese one anyway just because your welding needs don't strictly relate to professional machine.. I think this is quite wrong.

Of course kempi and other stuff may fail, but it doesn't happen so often, the seller of the chinese will always tell you - they are ok, people buy them, we haven't had a single one so far that failed - that's ********. And the people will tell you... for the price, I am happy, the machine paid for itself long time ago.... I am asking, if it paid for itself in like one year, why didn't they buy a kempi stuff on hire purchase, she would pay for herself a bit longer but.... a decent machine.

and understand, I am not sayin chinese is rubbish, I have one, it serves me very well, this is what I can afford, but choose a proper seller so you don't have problems because potentially al of them fail.. the least frequent to fail as I have noticed are analogue style ones that in Poland are called - Rubin... just because we once had a TV called RUBIN:

http://s2.blomedia.pl/lifesgoodblog.pl/files/2014/04/rubin-reklama-9320.jpg

you see this picture and you know what I mean perhaps...
http://www.4weld.pl/galerie/s/sherman-tig-200p-ac-dc_2302.jpg

but then I worked on such machine and it is not that well responsive to adjustments as my lcd one. it seems mine does what I set on the panel...

 

[choco]

Great keep us posted, was looking at this machine myself for the future. Interesting they kept it mosfet while everyone else changed to igbt.

 

[cumbriasteve]

The op intends this thread to be a 'from the box' review of the machine he has bought, the exact sort of thread that is very welcome on the forum, please do not turn it into the usual argument and discussion of build quality re cheap welding sets.

Lets just see what he gets, how it works and what he thinks of it, both in the short and longer term if he is kind enough to keep updating.

Thank you.

 

[MattH]

I'm very interested in hearing about your experience with this. I've looked at those machines a few times and have thought about doing what you are doing.

 

[wheresmejumper]

Yes me too.
It's usually the owners of the unmentionable brand are the ones to say avoid stahlwerk

 

[Jim Davey]

Pay more money for better backup on an aparently identical machine, that fails fairly frequently right out of the box or get a discount but put up with longer turnaround and possibly more hassle if it needs work during or after the warranty period.

If it was for home/infrequent use, I'd probably bag a Stahlwerk, if I was earning money off it and needed the fast service, R-Tech.

 

[Henrik]

It's here It actually arrived on Tuesday already, but as I was out, UPS couldn't deliver.

The welder and accessories came in two separate boxes and was actually very well packaged. The welder box was huge, and quite heavy (I'd guesstimate more than 30kg - definitely heavier than a bag of plaster).

Here's some pictures of the accessories (Note, I didn't buy the "naked" welder, but rather the welder with a mask and some consumables (aka "komplett set" or words to that effect)).

All accessories on table:

Stick electrode holder. Quality seems acceptable - quite heavy, but at the same time a bit plasticcy feeling (I doubt I'll ever use this anyway):

TIG torch and accessories. Actually feels pretty nice. It's rubber and plastic, but feels reasonable quality wise:

The helmet is plasticcy, of course, but no worse than the SIP helmet I bought back in 2007. It has grind mode as well as adjustability. It definitely feels better than my other 30 quid helmet I bought before xmas. There's one spare "glass":

The TIG pedal actually feels pretty sturdy to me. It's all metal, apart from the toothed bit, which is rubber. Certainly wouldn't have expected it to feel this sturdy for only 40 euros:

Now then, the welder itself. It's much bigger than I expected, and it's really quite heavy (certainly compared to my chinese plasma, which feels like a box of air in comparison). The case is of reasonable metal thickness, and the knobs and switches on the front panel feel reasonable. The power button at the back feels very nice and sturdy.
One thing I did notice when I turned it on was that the fan was quieter than I expected. It's no worse than an average PC workstation or similar. Perhaps it will make more noise when welding, who knows.

Data plate:

One cool thing about the case itself was that the logo was actually embossed (stamped) on top:

I also took the top cover off to look for loose connections:

As you can see, there was one loose cable, even though the cables are siliconed in place. The reason for this seems to be that the cable has one of those metal rings (no idea what they're called), and it's hanging loose. The way the cable is routed means that the downward force of the ring ends up pulling up on the connector.

The circuit boards actually have stahlwerk printed on them, so it's at least not completely generic. Also, there's a small daughterboard, which could be supported a bit better if I'm honest, however it's not got any heavy components on it, so maybe it's OK.


All in all, for the money, so far I'm pretty satisfied. I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, apart from powering it on/off, but hopefully I'll get some time on the weekend to have a play.

 

[skotl]

Very interesting, Henrik. Thanks for posting (and thanks to Steve for keeping it on topic).

seems to be that the cable has one of those metal rings (no idea what they're called),

Did you mean something like these?;

If so, then these are RF (Radio Frequency) chokes and are an anti-interference measure.
If a cable has come unstuck with one of these attached then it's most likely just due to being shaken around during transit. Now that it's safe and sound in your workshop, I'd hope it's ok but do ensure that the choke isn't pulling vertically on a connector.

Looking forward to the initial and ongoing reviews!

 

[choco]

Thanks for posting this. When you get around to using it. Can you tell me what range the foot pedal adjusts the amperage. I have one of those foot pedals adapted for my lift tig.

 

[Henrik]

Did you mean something like these?

Ah, yes, exactly one of them. Now that the welder isn't moving about, it should be fine

 

[Henrik]

Managed to get about one hours worth of playtime in the garage today, so hooked up the gas etc and set it to 7 litre/minute, sharpened a tungsten and got to work (btw, what a faff it is to put a torch together if you don't know how to do it )

Some snaps of my weld testing today. It's all done with a 1.6mm ceriated tungsten, and (around) 1.6mm mild steel filler rod. The plate is stainless 304. I've only done about 1 hours worth of tigging before, and that was back in 2010.

before wire-brushing:

after wire-brushing:

does the weld in the middle look a bit cold?

penetration:

Did the compulsory melting of filler wire onto electrode once as well, of course...

Had a play with the pre/post flow, pulsing, ramp up/down etc, and as far as I can tell it all seems to work. I haven't had a play with the AC function, though, so don't know how well that works.

I do wish the torch was smaller, though... it feels big and clumsy, but that might just be me.

 

[Richard.]

Looks like your progressing well with it. Get some bigger lumps and pic up your travel speed a bit to keep the heat down. Stainless should be shiny. You've naturally got some consistency there with your filling which is a difficult hurdle for new comers to over come so well done you. I'd like to see how she behaves with a chunk of aluminium. Generally dc is a process that doesn't split many tig sets up despite what they cost or where they come from and looking at what you've achieved it seems your new toy is no exception. Ac is a different story (not always) but Ac arc stability really is much more exaggerated between machines and it's not always the dear ones that get it the best either. I have an mls which is about 2 years old and while it's really nice to use and a stable arc it's not in the same league of arc stability when compared to my old machine which was a 20 year old magic wave. They can vary so much on this feature. So I look forward to seeing and hearing your experiences with aluminium on it. It looks well laid out inside. Strong chassis and the main pcb on top out the way of the cooling fan(s) my only concern is the pedal. It looks an awful thing to use sat up high on the big block. It would be like wedging mine under a yellow pages. That's just an observation though and it might be better than it looks. Keep up the review and may she serve you well.

 

[choco]

Any update with this. Did you try out the AC?

 

[Henrik]

No sadly no tigging since the first attempt... My bedroom roof started leaking whilst I was on holiday, so I've spent all extra time I've had fixing that instead. Had to also paint the front of the house, as it got discoloured by some rotting wood, but all works actually completed today

Will try some aluminium soon and report back.

 

[Henrik]

I've ordered some alu rods from weldequip to have a play with alu welding, but I had a (little) play with melting some aluminium on an old Saab sump I have lying about, and it seemed to work as I'd expect.

Here's a picture of me moving the torch / pool around (I think it was 30 amp, and about 100hz ac freq, about 60% clean). The grey tungsten (1.6mm) balls up almost immediately. Bare in mind that the sump was completely covered in oil (on both sides) and I only wiped it down quickly with some brake cleaner.

Hopefully I'll have some more time to play with welding after July, as my Mrs has given up work to run the house hold etc, as it was becoming impossible with child care, _constant_ marking and lesson planning etc (she is a teacher), but until then I suspect my welding time will be in short bursts every so often.

 

[Henrik]

Also had the quickest of plays with some pipe to flat joint:

The above was at about 80 amps.

I find it very hard to get comfortable whilst TIGing. When mig-welding, I just stand and lean the torch arm wherever I can, but with TIG it's far harder as I have to get in much closer to see what I'm doing, and also of course you can be a complete ogre with the mig welder and it will still look roughly the same weld wise... I think I need to get myself a decent bar stool or similar to sit on, so that I can set up a decent welding position.

 

[Henrik]

Oh, and also made my first ever "real" part...

The subaru project requires the two fuel rails (two injectors on each side of engine as it's a flat 4) to be converted to a parallel setup. There's a multitude of rails etc available from about 50 quid up to 300, but I figure I'll be able to modify the existing rails instead now that I have the welder.

The rail starts off with a long pipe that snakes its way under the inlet manifold (where the fuel hose has to be attached etc), and I wanted to modify it so that the connector for the hose would be easily accessible instead. To achieve this, I lopped off the pipe at the join to the fuel rail and welded on the fuel hose connector from the other end of the pipe.

It's not pretty (at all), but of course I'm just starting out, and I think it is leak-proof (at least from a visual inspection). I've done similar stuff in MIG before, and using the TIG took about 5 times as long, but at least it's on there, and at least I'm on my way to making something useful