Synergic 100A Inverter MIG for 85 Quid

[eddie49]

An interesting little cheapy flux-core MIG that is different from the usual tat, in that it has only one combined voltage & wirespeed control:

Pardon our interruption...

It is an inverter, rated at 30 to 100 A, weighs 5 kg, and costs £84.99 inc. shipping.
I think the "4mm" thickness at the maximum setting is a bit optimistic, but the 0.5, 0.8, and 1.0mm settings, if true, could be useful.

 

[HughF]

4mm is do-able with flux core from a machine that size, just...

 

[Christake2]

Interesting concept. so the faster the wire speed the the higher the amps not sure how it would work with different thicknesses is that the synergic thing?

 

[matt1978]

Interesting concept. so the faster the wire speed the the higher the amps not sure how it would work with different thicknesses is that the synergic thing?

Amps (Current) is always related to Wirefeed speed with Mig welding regardless of if the machine is Synergic or not. If you increase the wirefeed rate, the current will also increase. In its simplest form, synergic means that there will be a predefined amount of voltage to burn off the wire for any given wirefeed rate. These predefined Volt/Wirefeed settings are then applied to an approx material thickness for welding a T fillet in the flat position (depending on the diameter of the wire your using)

 

[GRW]

Amps (Current) is always related to Wirefeed speed with Mig welding regardless of if the machine is Synergic or not. If you increase the wirefeed rate, the current will also increase. In its simplest form, synergic means that there will be a predefined amount of voltage to burn off the wire for any given wirefeed rate.

Is this universally true, even on the cheap low-end conventional transformer MiG welders?
My basic Clarke has 4 power settings (1 hi/lo, 2 hi/lo) so it's pretty crude.
I've found that having the wire feed speed setting somewhere around the Current setting level seems to be a good starting point to get a reasonable weld (e.g 1-Lo with Wire speed at 1, 1-Hi at 2, 2-Lo at 3, and 2-Hi at wire feed speed 4).

(I'm still learning every time I use it)

 

[matt1978]

Is this universally true, even on the cheap low-end conventional transformer MiG welders?
My basic Clarke has 4 power settings (1 hi/lo, 2 hi/lo) so it's pretty crude.
I've found that having the wire feed speed setting somewhere around the Current setting level seems to be a good starting point to get a reasonable weld (e.g 1-Lo with Wire speed at 1, 1-Hi at 2, 2-Lo at 3, and 2-Hi at wire feed speed 4).

(I'm still learning every time I use it)

The settings 1-Hi/Lo 2-Hi/Lo will be changing the voltage output of the transformer, not the current. The wirefeed rate is the current/amps.

just looked at the Clarke 135 Turbo with 4 settings and it’s transformer has a voltage range of 18-26v.

1-min = 18v
1-max = 21v’ish (guesstimate)
2-min = 24v’ish (Guesstimate)
2-max = 26v

 

[Hood]

The biggest problem with these cheap "synergic" welders is they are not adjustable and thus you are relying on the makers to set the voltage/wirefeed relationship correctly. Even if they get close for some situations you will likely find they are not good for all. More than likely you will find they are not set very well for anything. More expensive synergic migs allow you to adjust voltage trims etc so that you can fine tune for different wires and material.

 

[GRW]

The settings 1-Hi/Lo 2-Hi/Lo will be changing the voltage output of the transformer, not the current. The wirefeed rate is the current/amps.

just looked at the Clarke 135 Turbo with 4 settings and it’s transformer has a voltage range of 18-26v.

1-min = 18v
1-max = 21v’ish (guesstimate)
2-min = 24v’ish (Guesstimate)
2-max = 26v

Can I ask a couple of questions - just to see if I understand correctly?
1. You say increasing the wire speed also increases the Current. So using Ohm's Law and the Volts for a given setting are a constant - this means that if the Current is increasing then the resistance (the actual welding arc I'm guessing?) Changes also?
2. If the Current rises with faster wire speed, then if I keep increasing wire speed, I get a stronger and stronger arc (so better penetration and or able to seam-weld faster)?
3. If 2. Above IS correct, then my crude 4-setting welder is actually 4 x highly variable weld settings?
(I confess I just thought of the 4 Weld Setting levels as giving a fixed welding current, and then you just adjusted the wire feed to get the best performance / match the wire speed to the Weld Setting )

 

[Christake2]

Can I ask a couple of questions - just to see if I understand correctly?
1. You say increasing the wire speed also increases the Current. So using Ohm's Law and the Volts for a given setting are a constant - this means that if the Current is increasing then the resistance (the actual welding arc I'm guessing?) Changes also?
2. If the Current rises with faster wire speed, then if I keep increasing wire speed, I get a stronger and stronger arc (so better penetration and or able to seam-weld faster)?
3. If 2. Above IS correct, then my crude 4-setting welder is actually 4 x highly variable weld settings?
(I confess I just thought of the 4 Weld Setting levels as giving a fixed welding current, and then you just adjusted the wire feed to get the best performance / match the wire speed to the Weld Setting )

I thought that wire speed just adjusts wire speed so have learned something I wasn't expecting too!

 

[eddie49]

Perhaps the classifying of MIG welders by current started with Arc welders. Everyone understands that you can burn a heavier rod and weld thicker metal with a 180 Amp arc welder than with a 110 Amp machine, but who would know what a "32 Volt MIG" would be capable of?
So you buy a "150 Amp" MIG, and the 4- or 6-way switch is called "power" and people think it controls the Amps, when in fact it is the voltage. Each position connects mains to a different tapping on the primary of the transformer, so it is altering the primary-to-secondary turns ratio, which inversely changes the output voltage. ( Fewer turns on the primary = higher voltage out of the secondary.)
This thread contains more detailed explanations of why wire speed controls Amps:

Wire speed controlling amps?

Inspired by the last post in rtbcomp's switch positions thread: I didn't realise that rate of feed affected the welding currentThis one has been bugging me for ages. Some welding Overlord once described the power knob on the welder as the thing that controls the voltage (which it does) and then...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

including the fact that the voltage step switches on a typical 150 Amp MIG can double the output voltage from 15v to 30v, but the maximum current rating of 150 Amps is five times the minimum of 30 Amps, so this range must be due to changes in wire speed.

 

[GRW]

Perhaps the classifying of MIG welders by current started with Arc welders. Everyone understands that you can burn a heavier rod and weld thicker metal with a 180 Amp arc welder than with a 110 Amp machine, but who would know what a "32 Volt MIG" would be capable of?
So you buy a "150 Amp" MIG, and the 4- or 6-way switch is called "power" and people think it controls the Amps, when in fact it is the voltage. Each position connects mains to a different tapping on the primary of the transformer, so it is altering the primary-to-secondary turns ratio, which inversely changes the output voltage. ( Fewer turns on the primary = higher voltage out of the secondary.)
This thread contains more detailed explanations of why wire speed controls Amps:

Wire speed controlling amps?

Inspired by the last post in rtbcomp's switch positions thread: I didn't realise that rate of feed affected the welding currentThis one has been bugging me for ages. Some welding Overlord once described the power knob on the welder as the thing that controls the voltage (which it does) and then...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

including the fact that the voltage step switches on a typical 150 Amp MIG can double the output voltage from 15v to 30v, but the maximum current rating of 150 Amps is five times the minimum of 30 Amps, so this range must be due to changes in wire speed.

I think I follow that & can make sense of it
Hmm. I think I need to try adjusting wire speed more on the different settings and try to evaluate the effect.
Once I've got a good sound and arc I tend to leave well alone - and on the highest setting (2-Hi, 4 of 4 options) I'm only using about 4 or 5 (halfway) on wire speed.... so I need to see what it does when I go further round the dial.

 

[Hood]

I think I follow that & can make sense of it
Hmm. I think I need to try adjusting wire speed more on the different settings and try to evaluate the effect.
Once I've got a good sound and arc I tend to leave well alone - and on the highest setting (2-Hi, 4 of 4 options) I'm only using about 4 or 5 (halfway) on wire speed.... so I need to see what it does when I go further round the dial.

There are lots of variables with Mig, as has been said they are constant voltage machines so you set the voltage and the current alters with the wire feed. The distance you hold the torch away will also alter the current. Wire dia also makes a big difference. Unless you have a high end synergic machine then you really need to do a lot of messing around with your particular machine to find the best voltages and wire feeds for a given wire dia and material thickness etc. Jot them down when you find the sweet spots and that way if you are doing a similar job in the future you can reference your notes.

 

[GRW]

There are lots of variables with Mig, as has been said they are constant voltage machines so you set the voltage and the current alters with the wire feed. The distance you hold the torch away will also alter the current. Wire dia also makes a big difference. Unless you have a high end synergic machine then you really need to do a lot of messing around with your particular machine to find the best voltages and wire feeds for a given wire dia and material thickness etc. Jot them down when you find the sweet spots and that way if you are doing a similar job in the future you can reference your notes.

My first, current & (so far) only welder is basic budget and (shhh!) Gasless - so options are limited.
Intended to run on 0.9mm flux core only, I actually run it (unchanged) on 0.8mm E71T-GS (cos I can only find that wire in 0.8mm, and it transforms the performance).
So my only variables are the 4 voltage settings and the wire speed for each
So far, having the wire feed on 1,2,3 & 4 for lowest to highest voltage switch setting seems to work - but I'll dig out some scrap & see what happens when I raise wire speeds above what I'm used to

 

[Christake2]

Well' what's the point in learning anything easy everyone would be doing it!

 

[eddie49]

Maybe @miggie weld ( aka diyteknut ) can get hold of one of these synergic machines from the Supplier and do a review for the Forum and on YouTube?

 

[Rkweld]

I think he did didnt he? The cheapest mig on amazon one?? He liked it but preferred the uptime.

Or am i getting mixed up..

 

[eddie49]

He reviewed the Uptime 160 and also the "Display4top Mig130", which was the Amazon £99 set ( no longer available )

£99 Inverter Mig Welder Display4top Mig-130Plus + MMA

So Brought this Welder from Amazon For a friend and hes let me do a review on it links Here user manual states "MIG 40-140A / MMA 20-120A but it feels like 20a on the mig low setting but i can't test this my clamp meters not working. it has two push buttons one you can select mig or mma...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

but no-one has reviewed this synergic MIG....I'm just trying to avoid buying one myself to try it....

 

[Rkweld]

Thats the one i was confusing it with