Trouble with orange peel and lacquer

[Graham S]

After many years of wanting one I finally got a motorbike, as well as learning to ride ready for the test I am using is as a means of improving other skills with the hope of one day restoring a classic. You can see some of my progress here:

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/grezmos

As you can see I pulled a big dent in the fuel tank, learned to do body soldering and am now painting it up. All was going well but I ended up with orange peel in the fuel proof lacquer coat. I should mention that the paint also had some orange peel which I removed most of with wet and dry but not competely (thinking the lacquer would fill it).

I did some reading on this and found the usual tactic is to use fine wet and dry, wet with soapy water then a rubbing compound. I bought 2000 grit paper and set about the tank this afternoon (after leaving 2 weeks since I applied the lacquer). The worst of the orange peel disappears quickly but then I am left with lots of tiny little dimples which appear as shiny bits from an angle or black bits from above (it is black paint). More sanding and for some of the marks I am getting into the paint. I need fuel proofing so was thinking of just putting another coat on top. BUT in some areas I have tiny white spots, it seems as if I have revealed little bubble in the laquer/paint and these have ended up filling with sanded lacquer juice. Even more sanding later and in some areas I am at the primer.

I'm really not sure what to do, I can't lacquer over the white dots but I'm not sure how to touch up areas where I go through the paint.

Help!

Graham

 

[oz.]

I always thought that orange peel was brought on by applying too ticker layer of paint at each time.Thus causing the paint to react with the air but instead of drying throughout just drying the top layer and crinkling. Apply in very thin layers - so much so that you'll still see bits of the primer through the second coat. Keep building the layers untill you are confident you have created a good coating.

 

[KTMMICK]

After many years of wanting one I finally got a motorbike, as well as learning to ride ready for the test I am using is as a means of improving other skills with the hope of one day restoring a classic. You can see some of my progress here:

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/grezmos

As you can see I pulled a big dent in the fuel tank, learned to do body soldering and am now painting it up. All was going well but I ended up with orange peel in the fuel proof lacquer coat. I should mention that the paint also had some orange peel which I removed most of with wet and dry but not competely (thinking the lacquer would fill it).

I did some reading on this and found the usual tactic is to use fine wet and dry, wet with soapy water then a rubbing compound. I bought 2000 grit paper and set about the tank this afternoon (after leaving 2 weeks since I applied the lacquer). The worst of the orange peel disappears quickly but then I am left with lots of tiny little dimples which appear as shiny bits from an angle or black bits from above (it is black paint). More sanding and for some of the marks I am getting into the paint. I need fuel proofing so was thinking of just putting another coat on top. BUT in some areas I have tiny white spots, it seems as if I have revealed little bubble in the laquer/paint and these have ended up filling with sanded lacquer juice. Even more sanding later and in some areas I am at the primer.

I'm really not sure what to do, I can't lacquer over the white dots but I'm not sure how to touch up areas where I go through the paint.

Help!

Graham

Search on google to find a solution...........but from memory it is not enough thinners in it! I would cut my losses and rub it down again and repaint it, particularly if you want a real good job. I have checked your photos and am interested to know what equipment you are using and what paint also, I am no expert but will help you if I can.

 

[malcolm]

Could the white dots be gaps between orange peel on the original paint that have filled with paint dust during previous sanding that wasn't rinsed off properly?

Whatever the case I would be inclined to rub the tank down until you get to the colour coat everywhere that's visible, then get that completely flat before applying lacquer. If it's not totally flat the surface will show through - the lacquer is transparent after all, and in any case you'll rub through the lacquer. I'd get it totally flat, spray another couple of colour coats, totally flat again, then lacquer. What is the paint type? Rattle cans will be too thin to sand.

Colour and lacquer are more tricky to spray than primer. Have a practice on scrap metal to get a feel for the run point - they do tend to go on thicker and flow less well than the primers. Don't over-thin, best to use recommended thinner ratios and do the rest with technique and gun setup.

 

[jaykay]

lac.too thick,air pressure too high,gun too close. can all cause orange peel

 

[Graham S]

I'm afraid I don't have a gun, I'm using cans. In the future I'm hoping to buy an Apollo Spraymaster because I'm sick of wasting money on cans and know it will give me more control and a better finish (once I learn to use it). I just can't afford it this month, perhaps not next month either.

I guess what I am really trying to find out is, do I need to rub off all the lacquer before I can retouch the paint layer?

I think my problem was applying the paint too thickly, after getting orange peel on the paint layer I read about it on this site but I think I misinterpreted what was written, it mentions a balance between runs and orange peel, but that is all to do with thinning the paint not applying lots of paint.

Cheers,

Graham

 

[Chipper]

Not sure there's a need for fuel-proof clear. I've heard of probs with that stuff before, but think it crazed, not went peely. I've never used it on bike tanks, and done bikes years ago with normal 1k cans and no probs. Just wipe spills quickly to be on the safe side.

Only seen one result from a Spraymate, and it was peely. But not much to go on. May as well get an s/h compressor and small gun imho, though.

 

[Graham S]

OK if you have something to wipe it with, I also want a lacquer to give some extra scratch protection. I have lacquer now so need to deal with it.

It is the spraymaster not spraymate I am looking at, have heard really good things about it.

Graham

 

[Chipper]

True but petrol stations have paper rolls, wasn't like I carried rags around etc. As I said, sprayed a few bike tanks over the years, never had a prob with fuel even with normal 1k rattle cans yrs back.

Re current clear, as Malcolm said prob best flat that off. If it were me I'd flat back, prime and colour again. Mist on first coat, light coverage. Then go over with a wet coat. Not super thick, but enough to flow flat. Too thin / too far away can give dry spray.
The mist coat helps grip/fights runs.
Warm the cans a bit, stand in warm water.
If they came from a paint shop, might be worth asking if they do nozzles with a flat fan pattern, not the common dot - does better coverage.

Not sure which device it was to be honest, one of the HVLP turbine things. Get more control and choice with a comp+gun, whichever one it is.

 

[Graham S]

I haven't ruled out a compressor but even second hand it seems a struggle to find something that is half decent at a price I can afford. I also like the compactness of the HVLP units and I can get the spray master for £176 delivered.

I'll take it back to the paint (including any peel in that), give it another coat of paint and then re lacquer. I'll try some practise on some scrap first and give heating the cans a go, thanks for the tip.

Cheers,

Graham

 

[jaykay]

just looked your pics,did you flat that primer down befor appling black???
where in oxford are you???

 

[KTMMICK]

Try looking on the net for Axminster, they do good own brand stuff, from Italy.http://www.axminster.co.uk/category-Professional-Spray-Equipment-206842.html this is a link to the one you want, call them and ask if they can help you with a better price.....they did for me!

 

[rtcosic]

Are the experts 100% sure that is "orange peel" and not silicone contamination?



I'm far from being expert, but that isn't what I would call orange peel.

 

[KTMMICK]

Silicone contamination looks different to that........like small circles of missing paint. Almost sure it is a result of using cans, they are hard to get a good finish from particularly if you get them CHEAP. Get them from a reputable paint supplier and you should be OK.

 

[Graham S]

Jaykay, yes I did flat the primer and it had no sign of orange peel when I had finished.

KTMMICK,

The cans were from Halfords, not sure if that is classed as cheap or not.

I feel it had more to do with my technique than the fact it was cans as a few areas came out smooth as a baby. Of course cans probably make things harder.

Graham

 

[Chipper]

It looks more like dry spray than peel.

Reckon you could get an s/h comp for under £100, that'd be small but OK for bike stuff. Small gun for £20-30, plus a bit for hose and regulator/water trap etc. My little comp cost £70 s/h and will do bike stuff. It's not ideal as it does stop-start but keeping an eye for pressure drop gets you by.
A little comp won't run a lot of other power tools, but you can always upgrade the comp later. That's what I did, had to go slow because of cash etc.

Actually, those Aldi (?) comps that are talked about on here are better spec than my baby one and they're about £90 touch I think? There's some posts about hooking two together and things. One of them would work for bike bits.

 

[Graham S]

If forgot to say I am in the Botley area of Oxford.

I am not an expert but the surface looks just like orange peel so my guess is that is is orange peel. You would need a close up with good lighting to tell from a photograph.

Graham

 

[jaykay]

i was thinking put on dry too.

 

[KTMMICK]

Jaykay, yes I did flat the primer and it had no sign of orange peel when I had finished.

KTMMICK,

The cans were from Halfords, not sure if that is classed as cheap or not.

I feel it had more to do with my technique than the fact it was cans as a few areas came out smooth as a baby. Of course cans probably make things harder.

Graham

I didn't mean to offend so apologise if I did, but getting them from a proper supplier might be a better option.........they have a more specialised knowledge.

 

[jaykay]

cans are not the easiest thing to use.
also try to spray when the air is cooler then what it has been laterly.
and in view to temps. i would'nt warm cans up.all aids to wards fast drying.