vertical up help please.

[Steve Gray]

Hello everyone,
ive not had the need to do any kind of vertical up before, and know I will be covering it at college later in the course so thought id give it ago. As you can see im struggling! only had enough scrap to try 4 50mm long runs on 3 mm box, but all turned out the same

im using the same principles as I would if welding in the flat PA position, so slope angle of about 70degs and tilt that bisects the two peices to be welded, I also used a weave, as I read somewhere you need to do like a 'Z' pattern (I may be wrong??).

Anyway im sorry if this is really basic stuff for all you, but im hoping for some guidance See pic below.

Thanks in advance

Steve

 

[BrokenBiker]

try without weaving. Will get a smaller weld but should get penetration. I always prefer to run a stringer on a root pass regardless of what position in in

 

[God mode restorations]

i sruggle with this to...mind you in saying that i struggle with it all sometimes lol..a lot of people use the z weave as its a foundation for the weld puddle to build off of as you travel up as gravity is trying to pull it down....gun angle is the key i think......

 

[Steve Gray]

Cheers guys, hopefully get 10mins to try some more soon. would lowering slope angle help push the pool and molten filler up in the direction of the weld??

 

[Steve Gray]

try without weaving. Will get a smaller weld but should get penetration. I always prefer to run a stringer on a root pass regardless of what position in in

Cheers Brokenbiker, say you was welding this joint for example would you reduce settings for your root stringer?? Or just run a bead on the settings used for the main run??

 

[Steve Gray]

Had another go without weaving. Getting better.

 

[Steve Gray]

 

[God mode restorations]

i kept the same settings on my v up..but it does penetrate a lot more...i found what helped me was.when i started at the bottom i would pause for a second on the outside and go quicker across the middle and pause a second again..i do this as i work the z weave up...just a bead i did about ten mins ago...they are a hard weld to make look good to.....

 

[Steve Gray]

Thanks spencer, look tidy mate! Im sure ill pick it up after a while. Im getting more of an understanding how the weld pool behaves in this position and can adjust torch manipulation as required.

 

[God mode restorations]

cool cool...if i can help those that have commented and helped me with hints and tips...

 

[Bill Edwards]

Start with a single straight run up, making sure the torch is pushing up. Don't be tempted to drag it or to travel down to weld on anything other than very thin metal.

The settings may sometimes need setting for less power (and wire), but you can usually leave them as you would for a flat weld.
Once you've the root in place weave for the second and last pass (you can run stringers, but on thin college stuff a root and weave will probably be the best thing). When weaving go from side to side but linger at the edges a little, don't slow in the middle or you'll end up with an ugly weld with nothing at the edges.

It's actually extremely easy to do once you've got the hang of it. I actually prefer it to welding in the flat.

 

[Steve Gray]

. When weaving go from side to side but linger at the edges a little, don't slow in the middle or you'll end up with an ugly weld with nothing at the edges.

^^^abit like that monstrosity of an attempt shown in my first pic^^^ lol

cheers for the tips bill, ill have a crack at work if I can.

 

[Steve Gray]

Right ive nailed the single stringer on vertical up im confident with that. Which im assuming is acceptable on thinner material, 3mm for example?

Its just the second weaving run im still struggling with, what sort of thicknesses will the 2 run process become essential? ?

This is my attempt at a root stringer, followed by a weaved final run. I done it on 3mm plate as thats the only scrap I had and understand the bead is too big really but wanted to crack on.

the weaved run still looks a bit pants to me, more guidance required!!

Thanks chaps.

 

[Bill Edwards]

I find it hard to judge by looking at photos but your root doesn't appear bad to me.
As to the weave, you've demonstrated that you can move the torch in a regular, controlled way which is a good start. However, I think that you are moving upwards too much as you weave - go up in much smaller stages.

I'm not a welding tutor and don't suffer from problems on V up so may be wrong with my suggestions, especially viewing pictures, but I think I'm probably right about the fault in your technique.
As to how many runs you'd normally use - how strong do you want something to be?

When I was in college (some years ago now mind) it was a single root run followed by a weave for the V up, and I generally continue to do this most of the time (with no failures I might add!) varied slightly depending on the required strength. A simple gate hinge may only get one root run, whereas something under more stress will normally get the weave too, or if I need to multi-runs (very rarely necessary though).

 

[Steve Gray]

Cheers bill,

Sound advice, and thanks for explaining the question on root and weave runs. I apologise about the second photo as my camera on my phone doesn't like focusing any more.!!

I will get some more practice when I can and reduce the amount of upwards travel between weaves. The more I look at the picture the more obvious to me it is that I am moving up to fast.

lastly, I actually turned the machine down a tad, (reset the wire feed accordingly of course) for the weave run so I had a bit more control as I was getting in abit of a mess with the parameters used for the root. Is this a bad idea? And will it affect the weld??

 

[Bill Edwards]

Well, it's not really possible to say whether it is a bad idea or not. I wouldn't normally find it necessary to alter the settings, but I won't say that you shouldn't ever do it. I think it's a case of trial and error at this stage, you have to try a few things to find what works. If you're making a mess then by all means change something, even if it doesn't get the results you want you will learn something from it.
Don't be afraid to keep posting photos of your results on here for comments.

 

[Steve Gray]

Well, laid a couple more beads today and I think its definitely an improvement, although still moving up a tad fast I think? Practice makes perfect I guess.

more thoughts welcome. Thanks again everyone.

 

[God mode restorations]

practice practice pratice fella.....

 

[short circuit]

does look a wee bit fast and perhaps trying to jump up too much. just try and run smoothly a the top of the pool face, may need to just dial your wire back alittle too