Welder ocv

[Memmeddu]

Hi everyone
Just decided to buy a TP150 after that my actual welder dies (still fine now) ...
But at the local hardware store there's a promotional sale where they also sell a little DECA S150 , is an inverter stick welder , very cheap something like 170 euros , but it's an Italian manufacturer and 2 years warranty
Back to the topic object , the specifics don't say anything about using this welder with E6010 but
Arc force
Hot start
Antistick
102V open circuit voltage
150A 35%

Could this welder run cells?
My actual welder a stamos S-MMA 250 IGBT after struggling to get the arc going can run e6010 little bit hackward but it can
And the specs are
Arc force? No it doesn't have it
Hot start? No it doesn't have it
Antistick? No it doesn't have it
56V open circuit voltage (60V measured )
250A 60% 194A 100%

So the question is could this DECA run E6010 also if it doesn't have a special mode for cellulosic ?

 

[8ob]

So the question is could this DECA run E6010 also if it doesn't have a special mode for cellulosic ?

I cant imagine any arc welder struggling to use 6010 rods. Was there something wrong with the old welder?

Bob

 

[Memmeddu]

I cant imagine any arc welder struggling to use 6010 rods. Was there something wrong with the old welder?

Bob

An inverter welder that can run E6010 smoothly costs 500 euros for a cheap unknown manufacturer,700+ for a know manufacturer but on this budget it's possible to get a fronius transpocket 150
About the old welder there's nothing wrong with it , I want just to upgrade,get better

 

[Turbo]

I think you'll need to bring a couple of 6010 rods & some steel & ask to try the welder out.

I've a thermal arc tig inverter welder, well specced & on paper it should have enough ocv to run 7018 rods. I've tried several times but it will just not run 7018's nicely. I was blaming the rods, I had bought them from an auction.

But I bought a Rtech 180 mig on Saturday that can also do mma welding & it can run the 7018's no problem, even though it has a similar ocv to the thermal arc. The seller said it will run 6010's as well.

In summary I think that it's not only the ocv that matters on inverter welders, the electronics/programming must also play a part.

 

[Memmeddu]

I cant imagine any arc welder struggling to use 6010 rods. Was there something wrong with the old welder?

Bob

I think you'll need to bring a couple of 6010 rods & some steel & ask to try the welder out.

I've a thermal arc tig inverter welder, well specced & on paper it should have enough ocv to run 7018 rods. I've tried several times but it will just not run 7018's nicely. I was blaming the rods, I had bought them from an auction.

But I bought a Rtech 180 mig on Saturday that can also do mma welding & it can run the 7018's no problem, even though it has a similar ocv to the thermal arc. The seller said it will run 6010's as well.

In summary I think that it's not only the ocv that matters on inverter welders, the electronics/programming must also play a part.

My actual welder welds with 6010 but it's hard to get the arc starting

 

[zeppelin builder]

you need a steeply drooping power curve !
look that up !

i think that means if you put the welder up on a shelf and have the cables dropping to the floor it helps the electricity to flow like water

 

[Memmeddu]

you need a steeply drooping power curve !
look that up !

i think that means if you put the welder up on a shelf and have the cables dropping to the floor it helps the electricity to flow like water

I don't think this works because once down the current has to flow back to the welder

 

[pedrobedro]

I don't think this works because once down the current has to flow back to the welder

Just plug it into an upstairs socket, problem solved.

 

[TechnicAl]

With that OCV I would expect it to run 6010s well....I would try some Bohler Cel70 they often run when Lincolns wont

 

[Memmeddu]

With that OCV I would expect it to run 6010s well....I would try some Bohler Cel70 they often run when Lincolns wont

It's exactly what I thought the ocv make me think to be enough to allow me to run 6010 with no issues but on the other side the same manufacturer make a welder that has a special mode to run cels.
The rods that I have under hands are citoflex

 

[Memmeddu]

Today I would like to try something different

 

[Munkul]

It sounds like one of those ones where you suck it and see. From what i understand, high OCV isn't the only thing you need, you need some electrical "inertia" in the system as a buffer. Inverters are classically bad at this, since they just switch the power back and forth from rectified DC, some have huge capacitors and therefore a bit of reserve, both others simply don't have this, especially small single phase units.

Certain inverters are built specifically with some sort of reserve in the system to run 6010's - ie. fronius transpocket, lorch micorstick, as well as good sized 3phase multiprocess machines like Miller XMT, ESAB warrior, etc.

 

[Memmeddu]

It sounds like one of those ones where you suck it and see. From what i understand, high OCV isn't the only thing you need, you need some electrical "inertia" in the system as a buffer. Inverters are classically bad at this, since they just switch the power back and forth from rectified DC, some have huge capacitors and therefore a bit of reserve, both others simply don't have this, especially small single phase units.

Certain inverters are built specifically with some sort of reserve in the system to run 6010's - ie. fronius transpocket, lorch micorstick, as well as good sized 3phase multiprocess machines like Miller XMT, ESAB warrior, etc.

So my idea to make a choke isn't good?
My welder potentially can run E6010 because it did
But the problem is starting the arc ,once started it goes , needs a very quick manipulation to don't shut off the arc ,but it actually welds
Lowest setting I run E6010 is 50A using 3.2 rods .
My engine driven starts the arc in the moment ,I would like to give this capability to my inverter or maybe find a cheap inverter that can
I think that arc force and hot start are the solution to the problem
But I don't know I have to try
This in the photo is a bead made with my inverter and E6010

 

[TechnicAl]

A long time ago....more than 10 years....we discovered that Lincoln Inverters wouldnt run Lincoln 6010s....as they were rebadged there wasnt much we could do but we did run a series of trials to see if other 6010s would run in Lincoln Inverters.......as far as I can remember only the Bohler Cel 70s would run....I cant remember if Citoflex was one of them

 

[TechnicAl]

It sounds like one of those ones where you suck it and see. From what i understand, high OCV isn't the only thing you need, you need some electrical "inertia" in the system as a buffer. Inverters are classically bad at this, since they just switch the power back and forth from rectified DC, some have huge capacitors and therefore a bit of reserve, both others simply don't have this, especially small single phase units.

Certain inverters are built specifically with some sort of reserve in the system to run 6010's - ie. fronius transpocket, lorch micorstick, as well as good sized 3phase multiprocess machines like Miller XMT, ESAB warrior, etc.

I think youre right but the high OCV (80 or 100V) sets usually work especially those that start the voltage high and drop to the arc voltage (which will be about 30-35V). Some sets start the OCV low and build up...its these that dont work very well...I believe this is the issue with inverters......but my experience is over 10 years ago and Im no electrical engineer either.

 

[Memmeddu]

Today I would like to try something different

And it actually works
I build a choke I've attached it to the welder and it's works
6010 starts instantaneously the arc keep going and doesn't shut off
Now I have to put the choke into an housing and I will use it when I need
Quick shot of the set up
I will make a photo of the welds later

 

[Memmeddu]

So I put the inductor into an inverter welder housing that I got for years taking rain outside
The cable goes straight in the power cord in
The inductor is fixed using zip ties
And I put a dinse connector for the output side
Pretty portable , enough good to see
I have to make better connection but now I can't because lack of materials
The inductor is made out two microwave oven transformer cores and I welded them together leaving a 3mm air gap preventing the saturation of the core
The welds
On the first photo starting upside down
We have a 312L weld made before to make this thing
A E6013 bead
A E 7018 bead
A bunch of starts to see how far I can lift the arc using E6010
Two E6010 beads
On the second photo another E6010 bead
All them are straight drag no motion ,all them using 100A
What I noticed
6013 is something like a jet
7018 starts way easier but the arc is to strong
6010 starts easy and the arc is violent kept seeing like a big red flame coming out of rods directly into the puddle
Arc length is way better using to lift little bit the rod something like 1mm
The arc keep going until I lift more than 5mm
I think that is a success

 

[eddie49]

The wire used is very thick ( is it 35mm2 welding cable ? ), so only a few turns are possible in that tight space.
The inductance will probably be in the microhenry range? Did you experiment with higher/lower values of inductance?
Perhaps thinner welding cable - e.g. 16mm2 would allow more turns, or solid 6mm2 copper mains wire, or a larger core - such as the stator from an old motor.
However, it may be wise to consider how the output transistors and rectifiers on this inverter welder would tolerate a large inductor.....

 

[Memmeddu]

The wire used is very thick ( is it 35mm2 welding cable ? ), so only a few turns are possible in that tight space.
The inductance will probably be in the microhenry range? Did you experiment with higher/lower values of inductance?
Perhaps thinner welding cable - e.g. 16mm2 would allow more turns, or solid 6mm2 copper mains wire, or a larger core - such as the stator from an old motor.
However, it may be wise to consider how the output transistors and rectifiers on this inverter welder would tolerate a large inductor.....

I don't really know how to answer your questions
Because is the first time I'm trying something like that
The welder is 250A IGBT
I'm using it at 100A no more than this amperage because I thought it might kill the welder
One thing is sure now it works
I don't have a specialized instrument to measure the inductance