What is the easiest way to line up round bar on gates-(pics)

[mart]

I’ve been doing a bit more on the gates today. I’ve started fitting the round bars to the frame. I can’t help thinking there must be an easier way to line them up rather than what I am doing with bits of wood. Of course, I need them to be in the centre of the 40mm box, and in the centre of the 40mm flat bar half way up the gate and also square. I’ve not done the job before-this is a first for me, but I feel sure Welder Paul or others would have an easy way of lining the bars up central.

 

[wyn]

Maybe clamp or tack two lengths of angle on the frame temporarily for the round bar to sit on. Use a bit of steel or timber cut the right length to get the spacing between each round bar.

 

[Welderpaul]

Having a flat bench helps no end. We normally make the frames as you have done and lay them both next to each other on the bench, held down by toggle clamps or tacked to the bench. We then drop into the frames lengths of square or flat bar at the correct size to space the bars in the centre of the box section. eg if its 40mm box with 16mm infill bars using 12mm square bar will centre them. Onto these 12mm bars are 'spacers' welded into the correct positions. We use slugs which are ejected from the punch as spacers. These slugs are welded so that a bar drops into position and is held in place (one slug either side of a bar). these then set the bars at 115mm centres. Simply line the 12mm bars up, then drop all the 16mm infill bars in and merrily weld away. We tend to work the frame sizes so they take a multiple of 16mm bars plus a 99mm gap between them all.
If it has to work out as an odd gap size - i.e not 99mm, cut two spacers - usually rhs or something, and use those to 'gap' the bars. Swap the spacers top and bottom for each bar, otherwise an accumulation of any slight error in spacer length means the infill bars start to slant. When you come to the last one it could be a mile out!

 

[Hitch]

Ideally youd amke them on a nice big flat bench.

Just put some packing under the rod. For 40/12, a strip of 10mm and a strip of 4mm to rest the bars on. Or a bit of 12mm bar and 2mm tin...


Where thats not really an option, like in your case, Either lightly tack or clamp a bit of bar on the frame for the bars to rest on. Think about where you tack it on, somewhere it will be easy to cut/break off and grind off the tacks.

Spacings wise, work out how many bars and how big the gaps will be, cut 2 bits of box, and use these to space the rods.
I tend to swap the blocks over (top and bottom) every bar, incase there is a slight error in the size. Keeps the bars nice and straight.

 

[mart]

"Onto these 12mm bars are 'spacers' welded into the correct positions. We use slugs which are ejected from the punch as spacers. These slugs are welded so that a bar drops into position and is held in place (one slug either side of a bar)"

Two good replies there-both mentioning the flat work bench which i can understand would be of great help.

I`ll try to take on board the advise that you have both provided here-thanks.

Paul, i can only guess at what these slugs look like and the spaces that you refer to that are welded in to place. I think i have the general idea. Any photos of your set-up would be good.

The bar i`m using at the base of the gate(s) (as in the pic) is imperial i believe. I got quite a bit from the local metal recyclers. It measures about 17mm dia, that is why i feel it is imperial-i don`t think metric bar comes in that odd size. I guess that makes it a little harder to get some flat bar of the right size to line it up with at the sides.

 

[KTMMICK]

If you dont have a bench think about making trestles......thats what I always used, now unfortunately I am making them on the floor I always used round bar to make the spacer to get them central. I dont believe it matters 100% if they arein the middle as long as they are all the same. I would put the first one in check it is straight and square then use a spacer. Check as you go, because as mentioned you don't want to get to the end and find they are not straight. Also work from the centre so if there is a mis-calculation on the calcs they will be maximum distance apart.

 

[Welderpaul]

Black round bar comes as 16mm. Its not all that accurate on size or cross section (as BDMS would be), it probably measures anywhere between 15 and 17mm, although would still be refered to as 16mm round bar.
I'll get you a couple of pictures of our jigs on Monday

 

[mart]

OK Paul thanks-will look forward to the pic of the jigs.

What is BDMS?

Thanks for the pointers KTM-yes i put the first bar in the centre as in the pics, but was not sure if i was doing the right thing. Thanks for confirming that.

Wyn, i have decided to use the small angle as you suggest. I need some small angle for another job so i will untilise it when i remove it from the gates.

 

[Paul.]

BDMS, is bright drawn mild steel, as opposed to hot rolled or black bar, for gates and most general fabrication hot rolled materials are what you would normally use,

 

[Coo]

cant add to advice .... but they're looking good !

 

[Welderpaul]

As promised

This is a bit bigger than 16mm bar - it takes 21.3 OD round tube - for making pedestrian guardrails - the type you see either side of pedestrian crossings etc etc.
Quickly bashed together but has seen some use!

 

[bawjaws]

nice one paul, made one a while back, but measured 99mm from each one to the next one instead of using a single datum point, made a mistake and as it happens it fecked up the rest of them with it, binned the jig and went back to the old way, a measuring tape on each bar!. may make another proper one this weekend when ma new arc/tig arrives tho

 

[Welderpaul]

If its repetative stuff, we make the first guardrail panel, as accurate as possible, and use that as a form to make the jig. Then its just a case of chuck all the bits in and weld up ad infinutum.

 

[mart]

Thanks for posting the pic Paul. That sort of device although simple, has got to be a great time-saver. My gates are just a "one off", but i do intend making quite a bit of railing to go around the boundary. I will keep in mind the pointers that you and the guys provided for when i start on the railings. They will be in sections with equal spacings between the bars.

 

[Wombat]

I have a similar situation only I have to make a panel to match a store bought aluminium panel and it has to be angled down steps ( 30° ) I'm making it out of steel as I didn't want learn how to weld ali with a MIG.

It has 38mm X 25mm top and bottom rails with 15mm diam. verticals.

I was going to follow the original and drill holes in the inside surfaces of the rails then tack the bars in place - now seeing this I'm wondering if fixing straight to the surface would be better - just realised I'd have to cut the bar with 30° ends What would be best? Surface weld or drill holes ?

Second question - is it OK to weld black steel to Galv?

and thirdly - being a cheapskate I picked up some 15mm OD tube for my vertical rods (12mm ID) - They were on clearance at $2 each (previously $17.80) 2 metre lengths - I need 20 x 1.2m and only have 15 so figure I'll join up the off cuts - do you think a bit of 12mm rod as a joiner will work?

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

that's what I do when joining bits together.

For 1" box I put a piece of 20mm box inside, for instance.

Leave a decent gap between your tube pieces, say 1/8" or 3mm, weld on the inner strengther and let the weld build up and flow onto the tubes. Grind it flush with a flap-disk.

Ah, yes, to keep it all straight I lay the pieces in a length of angle.

Regards
Peter