Wheel adapter Vespa rim to quad !

[CompoSimmonite]

I'm back on gluten so have the associated brain fog returned and am struggling to think clearly

Over the years I've had a few microcars (Isetta, Berkeley T60, Honda Acty, Lomax, Microcar DX125, Microcar RJ125, Aixam, Reliant Regal and currently use a Smart Fortwo as my main run around) but I've always wanted to make my own interpretation.
I've bought numerous quad bikes to study as basis, as well as play with, and in the end settled on a Yamaha Breeze to build any microcar project. There are numerous reasons why the Breeze was chosen but one problem I can't get over is the unique wheel PCD so somehow need to fit alternative wheels as the massive knobbly tyres are totally unsuitable. There isn't enough metal to redrill the hubs. The standard rims are also too wide as intention is to use something like 4.80 x 8 trailer items (assuming they are acceptable for the MSVA test otherwise it'll be scooter tyres)
I can get new Vespa wheel rims from India cheaply but aren't sure which to use so welcome opinions.

The quad wheel PCD is 85mm.

First, which I like, is Vespa VBB rim as it keeps centre of tyre over the kingpin -

I was hoping to simply drill the quad PCD on these wheels (no taper) but find the centre bore is 52.19 and PCD approx. 88.5mm so don't think that redrilling will be possible.

Next is standard Vespa type, albeit from an older VBC model-

They would require an adapter along these lines (this is a VW item) -

The actual wheels are similar price.
For the first type the only thing I can think of is removing the reinforcing disc and welding a replacement that can then be drilled to the quad PCD. Brundle's have suitable discs. This pic shows the reinforcing disc -

So what would other people do ?

Cheers.

Paul H

 

[Dee J]

Any reason why you can't redrill those scooter wheels to the correct pcd, just 45 degrees rotated from the existing holes?

 

[CompoSimmonite]

Any reason why you can't redrill those scooter wheels to the correct pcd, just 45 degrees rotated from the existing holes?

That was original intention however the holes would then be very close to the centre bore. If quad PCD is 85mm and studs are 12mm then the distance from hole edge to hole edge is 73mm. With centre bore being 52.19 that means there would be just, approx, 10mm of metal from stud hole to centre.
Biggest problem is not having an actual wheel in front of me.

 

[evobilly666]

That was original intention however the holes would then be very close to the centre bore. If quad PCD is 85mm and studs are 12mm then the distance from hole edge to hole edge is 73mm. With centre bore being 52.19 that means there would be just, approx, 10mm of metal from stud hole to centre.
Biggest problem is not having an actual wheel in front of me.

In your final picture of your first post above, there looks to be less than 10mm anyway, so is this really an issue or is it just a trick of the photography?

 

[Wedg1e]

What are the chances of being able to weld a disc to the wheel that ends up perfectly concentric with, and 'flat' to the wheel...?
Wouldn't take much error and you'd have more runout than the England cricket team...

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Do the Yamaha hubs have studs or are they drilled and tapped for wheel bolts?
If they are the latter you could make up an adapter plate using countersunk set screws to hold the plate to the hub and have studs to match your chosen wheels fixed into the plate at the correct PCD.

 

[CompoSimmonite]

What are the chances of being able to weld a disc to the wheel that ends up perfectly concentric with, and 'flat' to the wheel...?
Wouldn't take much error and you'd have more runout than the England cricket team...

Quite a valid point

 

[CompoSimmonite]

The rear wheels will have centres no more than 460mm apart to conform to the regulation that allows it to be registered as a trike rather than a quad. Strange but that is one of the rules that I have no objection as even though just 125cc DVLA want £125 VED for it as a quad but just £15 VED for a trike.
The rear axle has no diff so is horrible on the road as a quad anyway and therefore the axle shaft will require resplining to put hubs closer together for the 460mm tyre centre rule. Brake is in the centre of the axle -

Tonight I've ordered a pair of new Vespa VBB wheel hubs so intend getting the quad axle shaft resplined to allow fitment of them thus solving fitment of the wheels to rear.
Hub -

Wheel on hub that you can see how close the stud holes are to the centre bore on a standard PCD

Now need to buy a wheel to double check clearance over brake drum / drive sprocket yet still keeping narrow and therefore where the shaft will need cutting and machining.

 

[Robotstar5]

Sounds like you're building something like this?...

 

[CompoSimmonite]

Sounds like you're building something like this?...

I'm going for a more traditional design using these for inspirations -

Obviously not a replica but a modern single seater interpretation.
Tractor headlights will be used (if they are E marked) to try and recreate the Messerschmitt layout and small dia -

Before anyone comments I will be building to MSVA rules and submitting the end result for testing idc. I've had a copy of the MSVA manual for ages and nothing seems impossible for a homebuilt design to be made legal. MSVA is a lot easier than the BIVA for cars
Using the Messerschmitt as a "benchmark" of what works intention is to make a folded steel (or alloy but reckon steel might be just as light) "punt" that quad front suspension will fit (with drivers legs inbetween) and quad rear swinging arm attaches with engine behind driver.
Haven't worked out full design yet