Why 135kVA g/set is shaking & black smoke when using 600amps welding set for gouging?

[williambuj]

Guys,

I have Goldarc TS600 welder thyristor type; welding amp range : 50-600amps; Rated input current : 65amps; and 25.6kW. (As attached)
I am using 135kVA-1500rpm-50Hz-415V-3phase Olympian GEP150 Gensets to operate the above welding machine.

For welding application, we are running 3 units of TS600 without any problem, and the genset are running smoothly.

But for gouging purpose, when we were using only 1 unit of TS600, the engine was shaking and black smoke a lot. (Gouging - cutting the metal/iron by giving high amp into welding rod and melt the iron. The amp require can be up to 2 times more than normal).

It's seems like the gensets aren't giving sufficient amps to TS600.
But the technician saying that it is because of the electronic governor.

If the amps for welding mode is 65 Amps, if double the amp, it might go to 130amps which my 135kVA still can supply.

Please advise what should be done or any solution.

Thanks & Regards,
William Buj

 

[piman]

Hello William,

I would like to see what the current from the generator is when using your three sets for welding as against the one set when gouging. It should have adequate power for that but I wonder if the engine is performing as it should, does the frequency drop when gouging?

Alec

 

[williambuj]

Hi Alec,

Thanks for responding.

Yes. The frequency did dropped to 48Hz.
I will get the current when using 3 units TS600. But I've been informed by my electrician, it was only 90Amps during gouging (taken from the control panel - Power Wizard 1.0).

WB

 

[dannyp]

frequency dropping normaly indicates lack of mecanical power.

but that really shouldn't be an issue but it may be playing silly ******s due to inductors. try plugging in the other two welders and just have them runing idel.

may find that they smooth the power for the working welder, big inductors / genorators can do weird things

 

[piman]

Hello William,

that current (90 amps) is well over the welder's rated current of 65A, but only about 50% of the alternator's output. I would guess that when welding the current per phase (I assume that they are each on a separate phase?) is a lot less than the 90A quoted.

I still supect the power of the engine, it's overfuelling to produce black smoke continuously under load, especially as the frequency is not being held?

Alec

 

[penfold]

Also check/change the fuel filters; I have encountered similar weird behaviour(frequency collapse/breaker tripping/shutting down) in gennys under part load which eventually turned out to be dirty fuel and clogged filters.

 

[Mr J Morton]

Sorry I cant help with your problems. I see your from KK I was there last year, fantastic country, great people and seeing your location brought back so many great memory's.

How does your kit hold up to the humidity?

Jonnym

 

[madkayaker]

are the sets 3ph e.g. using ALL 3 phases or are they split phase using TWO phases. it could be that if the units are split phase that the imbalance is to much for the gen set but when the three are being used its balancing up

 

[piman]

Hello MK,

I thinkthey must be single phase, from the current\voltage, but the alternator should cope with that, the engine just doesn't seem to have enough power?

Alec

 

[Tomlt]

Also check your air filters, black smoke usually implies that its incomplete combustion, so excess fuel and not enough air in the chamber.

 

[williambuj]

Hello Alec/MK,

Single phase? Gensets or the welding sets? Are you saying that the welder is drawing out the current from one phase only?

Penfold/Tomit, it's a new genset, fuel filter is replaced, service every 250 hours. But the situation of the engine when gouging is almost the same when you are trying to start up the motor. The engine will shake and black smoke.

Hi JM, thanks.

 

[Ir. Victor]

Gouging

Hi Alec, if we change the governor from electronic to mechanical type it will solve the problem. The rational is the mechanical governor will slow down the supply of diesel fuel for combustion, and thus reduce the black smoke and enhance the the engine to performance efficiently and that will solve the gouging problem