Dipped my toe in gas-less MIG

[Che]

Hi All - I got a very cheap Parkside (Lidl) Arc welder just over a year ago, and after some effort, and joining this forum, I got some ok-ish results, and fixed a couple of metal things that I wanted to fix with it. Not pretty, but worked.

After reading on here and other places, I decided to find a cheap gasless mig welder , either second hand or new with a return/warranty option -got pipped at the post on a few ebay auctions so took the plunge and bought the cheapest one I could see on Amazon.

It's a HitBox 200 (and yes, I saw the nick name for the brand on youtube haha I am sure you can guess it?). Having expected not much at all, the verdict is ....it's alright. I can only judge on the hour or so that I have used it . It's just got one big rotary nob on front for power setting - wire feed is automatic related to the power. So, for a beginner, its easy and straightforward ....maybe a bit too much in one way, as it isn't really educating me to about wire speed etc - but part of me thinks, as a hobbyist - do I care, so long as the welds are ok?

I'm still not sure after a few hours reading , whether I should be pushing or pulling either? On the pic shown, I pulled from left to right.

For anyone else going from arc to mig gasless, all I would say it, that it feels a bit more controllable, but you cant see as much of the weld puddle , and a bit of faith is needed that you are going in the right direction.

I think with trial and error and getting a bit of knowledge of how different metals and thicknesses response etc, and I will be quite happy with this one

I've today got a heavy steel table to work on, which will be a big step up from kneeing down on the floor , haha

 

[tom2207]

Hi , your off to a very good start ,,
from there on its really just patience and practice , Im sure that if you read the manual you will be able to adjust the settings , maybe only one at a time as you only have one knob to twiddle with , but it will be in there ,,, secret is to enjoy it , and dont worry if your welds dont turn out like you tube stuff all the time ,,, get some thin stuff , 1.2 or 1.5 etc and do a few joints , burn through a few times and get to know the sound and the feeling , , then your set up for when your welding Ferrari or what ever .

 

[Che]

Thanks Tom - I did try thinner sheet, and did indeed blow right through it. I read that maybe 'tacking' each end ,and then alternating ends might be a method for thinner stuff?....or should I just keep turning down the power to find the sweet spot?

I am totally loving it by the way and I don't expect to be a welder any time soon, but I am determined to fix a few bits of broken metal together and make it look ok.

 

[backpurge]

Good start

 

[Che]

EDIT - I am not 100% sure I inserted that photo with the practise weld on, in the right orientation. I might have flipped it?

 

[MikeBs]

Hi Che,
Gasless is always pulling, otherwise you get rubbish pushed into your weld.
Good luck and keep practicing, your welds looked OK to me.

 

[mike 109444]

If your tourch is as per the pic then you could remove the shroud as you don't need that for gasless mig.

 

[Che]

If your tourch is as per the pic then you could remove the shroud as you don't need that for gasless mig.

It is that one. I saw someone on YouTube (Maybe Tim Welds?) say to remove shroud...wasn't totally sure, but will do that next time.

 

[Che]

Hi Che,
Gasless is always pulling, otherwise you get rubbish pushed into your weld.
Good luck and keep practicing, your welds looked OK to me.

Thanks for that.
I appreciate any pointers.

 

[bricol]

I never really found much difference in 20 plus year of gasless welding of car repairs, chassis constructions, suspension arm making,gate repairs etc. pushing or pulling - just used whatever was needed to get a weld in the space available.

 

[Che]

I never really found much difference in 20 plus year of gasless welding of car repairs, chassis constructions, suspension arm making,gate repairs etc. pushing or pulling - just used whatever was needed to get a weld in the space available.

Even with the little knowledge I have, I realise that you might not be able to access a joint as you'd like, and that in reality you might be forced to do a push or pull , regardless of what you want - so this is good to hear , that it doesn't make a big difference. Thanks

And I'm reading that the angle should only be 10 degrees or so either way from the 'straight ' or 90? Is that another rule that is ok to bend if you cant get easy access to work piece?

 

[eddie49]

Hello and welcome!
At 200 Amps, your welder has a decent power rating. Most of these modern imported "synergic" gasless MIG welders are rated at only 120 or 140 Amps.

It does indeed have only one "Power" control, which adjusts both output voltage and wirespeed simultaneously, in accordance with a pre-programmed ratio, table, or map. The results rely on the preset values being spot-on, which may not be true for every application. Some of these machines have a Voltage Trim control, giving the ability to fine-tune the preset value, increasing or decreasing it. They have a second control dial for this, or maybe a push-button allows the single main control to access the "Trim" menu. If you do need to try a different voltage/wirespeed ratio, you may be able to fool the menu by pretending the wire size is 0.8 or 1.0 mm.

It is true that starting off in MIG welding with a synergic machine denies you the experience that can be gained by manually adjusting voltage and wirespeed with simple rotary controls.... it's like learning to drive on an automatic.

The MIG torch is a new type that feeds wire through a hollow Dinse plug, with a two-pin fly lead for the trigger switch. This fixes the torch polarity to be negative, as required for flux-core wire.
As mike 109444 said, with gasless wire the redundant torch shroud can be removed to get better visibility of the weld pool. If you choose to do this, insulate the tip with heatproof sleeving to prevent accidental shorts.

 

[Che]

Hello and welcome!
you may be able to fool the menu by pretending the wire size is 0.8 or 1.0 mm.


As mike 109444 said, with gasless wire the redundant torch shroud can be removed to get better visibility of the weld pool. If you choose to do this, insulate the tip with heatproof sleeving to prevent accidental shorts.

Thanks for all that info - I am copy and pasting that into a document for reference. Very helpful to understand what I have here.

Yes, there is a setting a change wire size, so that way to 'fool' it might be an option.

And when you say 'insulate tip with heatproof sleeve' , is that a off the shelf purchase (as in the pics i have attached from Amazon) or is something you 'patch' yourself (if so how?)

Thanks for all the help!

 

[aesmith]

And when you say 'insulate tip with heatproof sleeve' , is that a off the shelf purchase (as in the pics i have attached from Amazon) or is something you 'patch' yourself (if so how?)

I don't see the need assuming it's a "non live" torch, one where the torch is only live when the trigger's pulled. Otherwise it's like your arc where you need to watch where you put it down.

 

[Keithmac]

I've welded my car back together with gasless Welder and Lincoln NR211 wire.

As said I took the shroud off straight away as it serves no purpose and easier to see the welds.

The IGBT Welder was only £250 but it's been amazing really!.

(Display works fine, just doesn't show up in pictures for some reason).

 

[eddie49]

And when you say 'insulate tip with heatproof sleeve' , is that a off the shelf purchase (as in the pics i have attached from Amazon) or is something you 'patch' yourself (if so how?)

The latest gasless welders have a modified torch with no shroud at all, just a tapered black plastic sleeve that protects the tip and insulates against accidental shorts to adjacent metal when welding in a tight area ( e.g. inside a sill ). Those are the four black sleeves at the bottom of your picture.
However, I think your torch is the earlier traditional design, where the tip is screwed into a perforated brass base - the gas diffuser. It has a spiral spring to hold the chromed shroud in place. Two of these bases are shown at the top right in your picture. For a gasless-only MIG, the shroud and the gas diffuser are redundant, but you need the diffuser to support the tip. The chromed metal shroud is in fact insulated with an internal ceramic sleeve. If you remove it and are working in a confined area, you might short the gas diffuser or the side of the tip to metalwork, which would stop the arc at the tip of the MIG wire. I doubt if the tapered black plastic sleeves would fit your torch, and at £12 for two they are expensive. I would suggest covering the gas diffuser and most of the tip with a short piece of 10 or 12mm heatshrink sleeving.

 

[Che]

The latest gasless welders have a modified torch with no shroud at all, just a tapered black plastic sleeve that protects the tip and insulates against accidental shorts to adjacent metal when welding in a tight area ( e.g. inside a sill ). Those are the four black sleeves at the bottom of your picture.
However, I think your torch is the earlier traditional design, where the tip is screwed into a perforated brass base - the gas diffuser. It has a spiral spring to hold the chromed shroud in place. Two of these bases are shown at the top right in your picture. For a gasless-only MIG, the shroud and the gas diffuser are redundant, but you need the diffuser to support the tip. The chromed metal shroud is in fact insulated with an internal ceramic sleeve. If you remove it and are working in a confined area, you might short the gas diffuser or the side of the tip to metalwork, which would stop the arc at the tip of the MIG wire. I doubt if the tapered black plastic sleeves would fit your torch, and at £12 for two they are expensive. I would suggest covering the gas diffuser and most of the tip with a short piece of 10 or 12mm heatshrink sleeving.

Great - thanks. Sounds like a good cheap alternative

 

[aesmith]

I've welded my car back together with gasless Welder and Lincoln NR211 wire.

Do you mind me asking, where did you source the NR211?

 

[Keithmac]

I'm sure it was Engweld.

Not cheap but worth it for me to be able to bring the Gasless welder onto my drive and know I'll get a decent result.

It's top product on this link (0.9mm). Welds body panels up great imho.

Used it to make my chassis lifting adapter (50mm box section) and most recently on my seat suframes.

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