BS 4872 Coding

[c4tini]

This is what I need, some kind to code that proves to potential employers that I'm able to carry out a quality weld, rather than trying to shove a load of NVQ certificates from a college under the boss's nose..

I'll be 98% certain that my work will be in MMA and MIG, though never tried TIG, though this is due on my course in December/January..

Would you say the 4872 code was pretty straight forward?

I did my City and Guilds level 2 at college and I stuck the BS4872 onto the end of that for an extra £60. It was fairly straight forward. It was just like doing a city and guilds test piece really. Just made sure the penetration was good. My tutor made me do it on pipe in the flat position that I rotated. He thought that would get me the furthest with jobs etc. Then it got cut up and sent off to the twi. No real harder or different than any decent weld.
The certificate looks good as well when you flash it to people.

 

[SiPMerlin150]

@ C4tini, what you have done is exactly what i'm doing, am I right in thinking C&G is on par with EAL's NVQ's? I mean we're both doing the same process....

When I did my level 1 NVQ that seems like yonks ago!, my tutor observed my technique with my arc welding and continued to do so, and once my test pieces were done he lookedd at them, and said to me, 'theres no two doubts about it, you can weld, and very well, this is what i'd expect from a level 3 and you've done that level of quality at level 1!' '

Test pieces aside he was just giving me bits of steel, and said ' right, i want you to weld this......and this and that and then an open root bevelled plate...then out came the stoving rods...


Afterwards he said to me,

'you're going to be a pipe welder, this is what you should go for, your ASME 6g and that is what is for you, because anything less will eventually bore you.'

He gave me a AWS manual from ESAB which goes into great detail on pipewelding, almost chemistry and metallurgy levels.

Time will tell!

In the mean time, he managed to snap a photo of me doing a mock up of the 6G on the last day of my course once I had been assessed and passed.

 

[theoss]

Generally, people would rather take on a happy soul who's OK than a sour genius who's brilliant.

That's it! What I have been doing wrong all these years.

 

[SiPMerlin150]

How does £19.95 for 5KG of ESAB OK. 46.30's sound? Of course with free UPS tracked delivery?

Just fired some up and made some very nice fillet welds...

I have an embarassing problem though... Making multi pass welds on a tee fillet, in the flat position, my second run always cocks up, meaning I cannot keep a consistantly straight bead, as its free hand rather than having a corner to lay the metal into..any tips?


What do people think of these runs?

open to critism!

 

[dannyp]

i did the bs 4782 some time ago now. tbh it's not exactly hard just the vertical up T fillet and but joing in mig and MMA . probaly helped me with confidence in saying i chould do the job more than anything. bits of paper have never seen the light of day since but worth doing imo

most things are welded in flat position, thats why gantry cranes were invented yu can soon put it in the easy position. tho keeping hand in on the positional stuff is usefull allong with burning a few sticks just to keep hand in.

 

[PTvor]

Speed of travel not quite right sometimes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI4bGRqG4F4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojFZ__4t7ck&feature=related

Get your head into a better position so you can see where you are going as well as where you've been and use the edge of the root pass as a reference.

I think ESAB 46.30 is exactly the same as Murex White Box 6013 but the pack sizes might be slightly different.

£20 delivered seems like a reasonable price. Don't forget the cost and hassle of going and buying them from a local welding supplier. One of my local suppliers does them, but only by the 15Kg carton for £55 and it's a 30 mile round trip.

These people do them cheaper, especially if you can collect.

http://www.hisltd.co.uk/Esab-OK-4630-Mild-Steel-Rods.html

 

[SiPMerlin150]

i did the bs 4782 some time ago now. tbh it's not exactly hard just the vertical up T fillet and but joing in mig and MMA . probaly helped me with confidence in saying i chould do the job more than anything. bits of paper have never seen the light of day since but worth doing imo

most things are welded in flat position, thats why gantry cranes were invented yu can soon put it in the easy position. tho keeping hand in on the positional stuff is usefull allong with burning a few sticks just to keep hand in.

I try to do a little bit of everything, just to be in the knowledge of what could be expected of me

 

[backpurge]

Are the photos above single run welds

 

[wheresmejumper]

got 15kgs of those esab a couple of weeks ago,for what works out at a little under £40.
were good enough on an old oil coooled 3 phase machine,but when i tried them at home on my inverter i didnt like them at all.oerlikon were way smoother.i sold 10kgs and have stored the rest for a rainy day.


on the welds,im no expert but just spent 60 hours on a course doing that 3 pass fillet.
trick is get the root run perfect.feed the rod more consistently and youll end up with a dead straight toe along the bottom of the run.
for the second pass then you have a reference point.angle the rod at 60 degrees pointing at the edge of the first weld.just keep on the line and it falls into place

 

[SiPMerlin150]

60 hours? Wow ! I'm going to be putting in a few hours practice each night to get this right, didn't realise how tricky it could be.

I was sort of wondering about the angle, i wasn't sure whether or not to angle it at the same 45 degree angle as when doing the root pass, or just run it like a standard bead..

 

[SiPMerlin150]

Are the photos above single run welds

yes, i thought i'd take a picture of the lovely looking single pass before I messed it up trying to make a multi pass attempt.

 

[wheresmejumper]

this shows angles and points to aim for

 

[backpurge]

Right, for your second run keep your angles exactly the same and point your wire where the weld meets the bottom plate.
When you start welding dont worry about what is happening on the bottom toe of the weld, that should look after it's self, concentrate on the top toe. You should be covering a little over 3/4 of the first weld. If you are covering all the first run speed up, if you aren't washing high enough up it slow down. And remember the golden rule of MAG welding fillets DON'T WEAVE

Wheresmejumper, great sketch, it appeared just after I'd posted the waffling drivel above, it explains things very well

 

[SiPMerlin150]

Right, for your second run keep your angles exactly the same and point your wire where the weld meets the bottom plate.
When you start welding dont worry about what is happening on the bottom toe of the weld, that should look after it's self, concentrate on the top toe. You should be covering a little over 3/4 of the first weld. If you are covering all the first run speed up, if you aren't washing high enough up it slow down. And remember the golden rule of MAG welding fillets DON'T WEAVE

Wheresmejumper, great sketch, it appeared just after I'd posted the waffling drivel above, it explains things very well

Errm sorry, but there maybe a mis-understanding, you mentioned 'wire' and 'MAG' welding, This process is purely ARC welding, I only have a gasless MIG, never really use it.

 

[wheresmejumper]

60 hours? Wow ! I'm going to be putting in a few hours practice each night to get this right, didn't realise how tricky it could be.

I was sort of wondering about the angle, i wasn't sure whether or not to angle it at the same 45 degree angle as when doing the root pass, or just run it like a standard bead..

60 hours is aimed at people who have no previous welding experience,which after looking at most peoples progress throughout the course was about right.
tiny holes can appear in the very corner of the fillet when cut on a bandsaw if technique and power settings arent right.welds can look pretty from the outside but are still a straight fail.
then theres weld profile,straightness,slag inclusions,stop start inspections,undercut....everything has to be right,everytime

 

[SiPMerlin150]

I made a 4 run fillet weld last night, but today I shall weld up a new fillet, then cut it into two pieces, nick break test on half and use some hydrochloric acid to etch the other piece. This is something I haven't done before.

 

[SiPMerlin150]

Ok, just done these:

I need to wait till monday to get some acid, but heres the out come.
4mm mild steel, 2.5mm ESAB 46.30 @ 85-90 amps

Open for scrutiny

 

[wheresmejumper]

how many runs is that?i wouldnt bother with the acid test,not as much penetration is needed in that type of joint,you can see on the weld edges that power is right and the corner is filled.looks good

 

[SiPMerlin150]

how many runs is that?i wouldnt bother with the acid test,not as much penetration is needed in that type of joint,you can see on the weld edges that power is right and the corner is filled.looks good

That was a single run, and for te rest of the night I used some scrap tee fillets and ran up to 8 passes on some 3mm steel without a problem. Forgot to take a picture of that, was too focused on getting these pieces nick break tested

At least now I know now that what i'm doing is right

 

[wheresmejumper]

ill try and draw up the test procedure,shows you what to practice