2K Safety - Leason learnt

[jordan1]

Just like anything else that can be dangerous, just take informed care but don't get paranoid about it.

 

[PSweeney]

Another point to note in case people don't know is that ISO can permeate through latex, so nitrile gloves are needed when handling / mixing etc.

 

[Ian James]

I was talking to a guy I met whilst away with the caravan who was a retired ICI employee and they had to use masks regularly and underwent a stubble test if they failed that there was shaving gear on site that they had to use before being retested

 

[Keith 66]

I was up my mates scrap yard the other day & a mutual friend popped in, he has chronic copd & asthma & can barely walk 20 ft before having to sit down, he was struggling to breathe & it sounded horrendous. much as i like the bloke i was glad to get away. He reckons in his case it appears to have been caused by exposure to 2 pack paint & came on quite suddenly, following a big floor painting job they did with poor ventilation & no masks.
He got a payout but would much rather have his lungs back.

 

[Andzejus1981]

Hi all,
After reading this and before start spraying 2K want to find out how safe is my disposable coverall (https://www.screwfix.com/p/delta-pl...coverall-white-x-large-42-45-chest-31-l/9025r) + Moldex 9000 (https://www.spraygunsdirect.co.uk/i...ldex-full-face-mask.html#sthash.4BxnpUhG.dpbs) ???

 

[Parm]

2k paints is my hobby horse of mine

I know most of you won’t agree with me but.....................

They should be banned for sale unless you can demonstrate that your a professional user with understanding of what they can do to you and what control measures are required

No argument, no discussion. END OFF

I’ve seen what 2k does to the innocent home (and professional) user who all think they know.

 

[carbon]

From the manufactures own pdf on the mask Moldex 9000 series


DO NOT USE AGAINST
1. Concentrations of contaminants which are unknown, or are immediately dangerous
to life or health.
2. Concentrations of contaminants which exceed the maximum use concentration or
10x times the OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit, (PEL), when qualitatively fit tested,
or 50x times the PEL when quantitatively fit tested, or according to applicable
government regulations.
3. Gases or vapors with poor warning properties or those which generate high heats of
reaction, or paint sprays containing isocyanates.
4. Sandblasting.
5. Oil-based mists with N filters.

 

[Keith 66]

I’ve seen what 2k does to the innocent home (and professional) user who all think they know.

From what i have seen in the boat trade "professional" use is no guarantee of safe practice, In my time a boatbuilder i painted quite a few boats with 2 pack polyurethane, mostly brush jobs but got into spray at the end. I was always careful & wore respirators & ppe. But too many guys i know have lung problems. The old boy i refered to earlier is 68 but looks 98, he ended up in hospital recently & spent a week on oxygen. He made it out, just.
I dont touch the stuff now.

 

[JenniferLW]

Parm,

Thanks for these details on safety - Can I follow up with a question - I am not a welder... I'm a maid of honor and last night decided to spray some glass jars for favors using 2k glass paint that I bought from Pro Aerosols. I asked Pro Aerosols what mask I would need and they suggested a 3M 7500 half face mask so I bought that and had a face visor on with glasses - I sprayed for around 3 minutes in the garden (no one else around), but from reading these posts I am concerned that I should have had an air feed and full body suit?

I want to do more spraying but really need some clarity on PPE.

Be really grateful for comments / advice.

Thank you.

This is not scaremongering but based on hard facts and 20 years experience of working with a variety of organisations to safeguard worker health. To top it off I have two university degrees in this specialist sector.

Below is some information taken directly from the HSE web site

Paints containing isocyanate are used extensively in MVR as almost all motor vehicle repair bodyshops use 2-pack or "2K" isocyanate-containing paints. Isocyanates are used in some water-based paints, most base coats and almost all lacquers. ‘Water-based' does not mean ‘isocyanate-free', just that it is emulsion based and has reduced levels of solvents.

Spraying 2-pack isocyanate paints is the main cause of occupational asthma in the UK and, for years, vehicle paint sprayers have been the group most at risk. MVR paint sprayers have about a 90 times higher risk of getting asthma compared with the UK working population. Every year around 50 sprayers are diagnosed with isocyanate asthma and most have to leave the industry. Other workers in bodyshops are also sometimes affected eg maintenance personnel, managers and others who work in close proximity to spray booths/rooms. This spray mist containing isocyanate may also worsen existing asthma. Once people are affected even very low exposure levels can trigger an attack. Significant skin contact with isocyanate hardeners may cause dermatitis.

Over a number of years HSE have worked with industry representatives to explode the myths and explain why even the best air-fed visor can fail to protect people. Over 2000 people involved with vehicle paint spraying have attended free workshops up and down the country to find out how they could carry on using isocyanate paints safely. The ground-breaking training material used at these Safety and Health Awareness Days has now been made freely available on the MVR webpages.

• Ten bodyshop myths that can take your breath away

Below are some key tips for vehicle paint sprayers and owners of motor vehicle repair bodyshops.

Vehicle paint sprayers

• The risk of developing occupational asthma occurs because paint spraying produces a lot of invisible airborne mist that you can breathe in. Never spray paint outside the booth or room.
• Your booth/room takes time to clear of mist, so know the clearance time and make sure everyone else does too.
• Always wear air-fed breathing apparatus (BA) when spraying and know how to safely leave or enter your booth or room during the clearance time.
• Your employer should check the controls are working by measuring your exposure to isocyanate. Currently the only way to do this (and accepted by the MVR industry) is by providing a urine sample for analysis. See Sector Information Sheet 03/2012/01 - Reducing ill health from isocyanate exposure in motor vehicle repair (MVR)
• You need regular health surveillance i.e. lung function testing and skin checks. This is to identify early symptoms and signs of occupational asthma and dermatitis (skin rashes).

Bodyshop owners / managers

• Spraying 2-pack isocyanate paints creates fine, invisible, airborne mist that can cause occupational asthma
• It spreads through the air like smoke.
• Your spray booth or room takes time to clear of fine paint mist.
• Measure the clearance time using a smoke/fog generator, clearly mark it on the entrance door(s) and make sure everyone who uses the booth/room knows what to do. For information on smoke generators and advice on how to conduct a clearance time measurement please see 'Measuring paint spray booth clearance time'.
• The research report 'An automated system for indicating spray clearance times of MVR spray booths and rooms - RR742' describes the design and assembly of a device consisting of a timer switch, programmed with the clearance time, which is triggered by a sensor that detects when the spray gun is turned on and off. Two types of sensor are evaluated and recommendations made for different operational setups. The system is relatively inexpensive and can be retrofitted to existing spray booths/rooms.
• Make sure the booth/room runs at slight negative pressure so that if there are any leaks, air is drawn into the booth/room rather than paint mist leaking out into the workshop
• Make a list of simple daily and weekly checks to be done in the booth/room, appoint someone to do them, record the findings and act if things are wrong
• Check exposure is properly controlled by arranging for the analysis of urine samples of vehicle paint sprayers. See Sector Information Sheet 03/2012/01 - Reducing ill health from isocyanate exposure in motor vehicle repair (MVR)
• Arrange regular health surveillance for those potentially exposed to isocyanate paints such as sprayers. For more information on health surveillance for occupational asthma see HSE guidance publication 'Health surveillance for occupational asthma (G402)'
• Use the COSHH paint spraying and allied tasks and other published advice to help you reduce exposures to isocyanates.

 

[Parm]

Parm,

Thanks for these details on safety - Can I follow up with a question - I am not a welder... I'm a maid of honor and last night decided to spray some glass jars for favors using 2k glass paint that I bought from Pro Aerosols. I asked Pro Aerosols what mask I would need and they suggested a 3M 7500 half face mask so I bought that and had a face visor on with glasses - I sprayed for around 3 minutes in the garden (no one else around), but from reading these posts I am concerned that I should have had an air feed and full body suit?

I want to do more spraying but really need some clarity on PPE.

Be really grateful for comments / advice.

Thank you.

Drop me a pm a pm and we can have a chat

 

[hurricane]

A very close friend of our family was a painter by trade and there was many times I seen him spraying without a mask full stop. He used 2K paints day in and day out.

He lost a lot of weight in a short period, camera revealed tumour in his stomach, x-ray showed it in his lungs, also in his liver......he was only around 50 years old, very sad end.

 

[brightspark]

A very close friend of our family was a painter by trade and there was many times I seen him spraying without a mask full stop. He used 2K paints day in and day out.

He lost a lot of weight in a short period, camera revealed tumour in his stomach, x-ray showed it in his lungs, also in his liver......he was only around 50 years old, very sad end.

if it was his trade and used regular he should have known better

 

[hurricane]

if it was his trade and used regular he should have known better

I guess you could say the same with smoking, drinking and drugs......we all know the risks but i guess the, "it wont happen to me" attitude takes over for a lot of people.

 

[Bobo]

Other workers in bodyshops are also sometimes affected eg maintenance personnel, managers and others who work in close proximity to spray booths/rooms.

Makes me wonder if this is what my Uncle has got! He started his own bodyshop in the early 70's, he only sold the business about 3 years ago. My Dad put him up a pair of sliding doors to use as a paint booth/room in the mid '70s.

He's been very unwell over the last few months with breathing difficulties. My Dad think's it's down to the Dust from his Bird aviary, but I think it's from the paint shop.

 

[Morrisman]

I bought some 2k primer last week for my hot rod. The paint shop sold me a mask that they reckon was good enough for the job, and I’ve spoken to many painters over the years who say the right mask will suffice. I used the same paint and mask type some ten years ago and have used the same mask for acrylic several times over the years, but I bought a new one this time.

After reading this thread I think I will wear a full disposable suit, and leave all my garage doors open. I’m not after a show finish, so a few bug footprints in the paint won’t hurt.

I was warned long ago to use the mask even when mixing the paint, and cleaning the spray gun. I use HVLP, so a lot less overspray and dust than a normal gun.

 

[ajlelectronics]

I bought some 2k primer last week for my hot rod. The paint shop sold me a mask that they reckon was good enough for the job, and I’ve spoken to many painters over the years who say the right mask will suffice. I used the same paint and mask type some ten years ago and have used the same mask for acrylic several times over the years, but I bought a new one this time.

Well it is unlikely to be! The danger of a negative pressure mask is the seal. Unless the seal conforms perfectly to your face, you will be at risk. A positive pressure mask will not allow that to happen and is much more pleasant to wear. Also your face and eyes are protected with a positive pressure mask.

After reading this thread I think I will wear a full disposable suit, and leave all my garage doors open. I’m not after a show finish, so a few bug footprints in the paint won’t hurt.

Very good decision. You also need to be aware of other people and animals in the vicinity. Anywhere near the general public could get you into bother.

I was warned long ago to use the mask even when mixing the paint, and cleaning the spray gun. I use HVLP, so a lot less overspray and dust than a normal gun.

The danger is in the spray mist. Mixing and passive cleaning does not create the mist. There is however a Dermatitis risk as there is with any chemical, if the skin is exposed to it.

 

[Burdekin]

Does it contain isocyanates Not all 2k paints do.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Does it contain isocyanates Not all 2k paints do.

Good point. Epoxy is 2K but isocyanate free.

 

[Parm]

Other workers in bodyshops are also sometimes affected eg maintenance personnel, managers and others who work in close proximity to spray booths/rooms.

Makes me wonder if this is what my Uncle has got! He started his own bodyshop in the early 70's, he only sold the business about 3 years ago. My Dad put him up a pair of sliding doors to use as a paint booth/room in the mid '70s.

He's been very unwell over the last few months with breathing difficulties. My Dad think's it's down to the Dust from his Bird aviary, but I think it's from the paint shop.

Both are strong candidates for the symptoms being experienced. Easy enough to pin point the diagnosis if the medical people are given all the information about employment and lifestyle, hobbies etc

 

[Bobo]

I know some of them are isocyanate free, but not necessarily all of them I dont think. You'd have to check the individual data spec sheets from different manufacturers.

Good point. Epoxy is 2K but isocyanate free.