A tale of welding caution, non-NHS healthcare and generosity

[Parm]

A timely reminder that i should probably get something like this : https://www.toolstoday.co.uk/xr940a...rn1uiY8mZJQPwk1SaXy9CNopjSFT-7pkaAl4tEALw_wcB

I only weld occasionly and almost akways on cars in awkward position, so LEV probably not easy to do.

Thoughts?

It’s easier than you think. Doesn’t need to be complicated.

that type of kit may not practical if your laying on your back etc, whereas a simple fan positioned near the job and Sucking fumes away from you will be more effective.

 

[skotl]

I am not convinced that the NHS is more equitable for the vast majority of people, those who work should see their incomes rise if everyone had to pay for medical insurance themselves? It is all a matter of perspective, but whilst I can see a great unfairness at someone who worked for most of their life but then got made redundant struggling to get medical care, I can also see great unfairness at someone who looks after themselves, puts themselves through university with massive debts then having to pay for the treatment of people with self inflicted medical problems who either never worked, or like a large number of people in this country, avoided paying NI through being self employed or various other dodges.

In the US cancer treatment is on medicare so people are not turned away, also if you do not have health insurance, hospitals will not turn you away if you are in serious need and they will then write off the cost if you cannot pay.

Wow. Well, our opinions are so far apart that there's little point in continuing the debate as neither of us is going to be able to persuade the other.
So I'll leave it there.

 

[mtt.tr]

I never avoided paying NI by being self employed. Hence getting the maximum State pension in four weeks time. Paid in arrears, just in case you drop down dead before hand.

I do wonder what all the idiots will do, loads of trades i know think they are smart avoiding paying ni and tax

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

I do wonder what all the idiots will do, loads of trades i know think they are smart avoiding paying ni and tax

You recon we will ever see a state pension.

Have us working into our 80s by that time

 

[Stueeee]

I am not convinced that the NHS is more equitable for the vast majority of people, those who work should see their incomes rise if everyone had to pay for medical insurance themselves? It is all a matter of perspective, but whilst I can see a great unfairness at someone who worked for most of their life but then got made redundant struggling to get medical care, I can also see great unfairness at someone who looks after themselves, puts themselves through university with massive debts then having to pay for the treatment of people with self inflicted medical problems who either never worked, or like a large number of people in this country, avoided paying NI through being self employed or various other dodges.

The point I was making is that there are more ways to lose your house than health problems and the state rarely steps in.

There are lots of people in the US (and many other countries) who have their own health insurance not through an employer - also keep in mind that IIRC it is about £3000 per person for the NHS in this country (and that is for all people, babies, retired, workers, non-workers etc), so it is certainly not free. The US is a bad example to look at for healthcare costs as it is massively above all the other developed nations for some reason. There are other countries that use the same insurance based system without the big hikes in premium.

Self employed not paying NI? that's currently costing me 9% -I'm sure there are people never pay NI, never pay taxes etc. The collective noun for these people is "criminals"

The NHS was set up to be "free at the point of access". Whilst the across UK per capita cost of the NHS may be £3000, it's financed by taxation (NI, income tax, VAT etc.) so, effectively a government medical insurance. Other countries have a different insurance system backed by the government of that country and paid for by taxation; the whole point of these systems is that they are based on need, not on a person's ability to pay.

AFAIK, the USA is unique amongst first world countries in not having such a safety net. IMO, that's because health provision there is a very profitable marketplace, so why would those big corporates want any type of NHS universal healthcare there?

 

[magnet]

The US is not a place to be ill or old unless you've got a damn good private health care provision.

A mate in Chicago has no savings now from paying for his daughters cancer treatment. If it wasn't for the limited "Obama care", savings would have run out a few years ago and she wouldn't be here.

Interesting way of thinking over there - people who have paid into a private provision are totally against any type of National Health Service - they didn't have it, they had to pay for it, so why should anyone else get it for free/cheaper?

Meaning people simply don't get treatment. When you get charged for ambulances, hospital visits, and the more trips and visits, the more you get charged, even if you have health care insurance . . .

My Aunt who lives in the states has just had five days in hospital..........$12000

 

[Seadog]

I'm sure there are people never pay NI, never pay taxes etc.

And they're the people in a position to be able to afford to without even noticing the cost

 

[Hopefuldave]

The point I was making is that there are more ways to lose your house than health problems and the state rarely steps in.

The most recent statistics I can find (from the CDC and pre-Trump, so I assume it has got worse) show that about 70% of American bankruptcies (i.e. losing their homes) are *directly* due to medical treatment costs, unsurprising when consideringthe cost of insurance (I've a couple of friends in the US paying $1000+ per month) the copays (which can be anything up to $40k per annum, set by the insurance companies), yearly and life limits on insurance company payouts. Be glad of the NHS, it's one of the most civilised things the world knows (and your UK Private Health INsurance won't be much use if you have a heart attack/stroke/major injury - you'll need the facilities the NHS has and the private hospitals don't).

Dave H. (the other one)

 

[gaz1]

just so you know the us has already taken over a nhs gp practices already

http://camdennewjournal.com/article/protests-outside-surgeries-against-us-firms-takeover?sp=1&sq=gp%2520surgery

http://camdennewjournal.com/article/gp-takeover-firm-is-target-of-nhs-rally?sp=1&sq=gp%2520surgery

for another insult

http://camdennewjournal.com/article/boss-of-firm-that-took-control-of-gp-surgeries-is-appointed-health-adviser-at-no-10?sp=1&sq=practice

 

[addjunkie]

just so you know the us has already taken over a nhs gp practices already

http://camdennewjournal.com/article/protests-outside-surgeries-against-us-firms-takeover?sp=1&sq=gp%2520surgery

http://camdennewjournal.com/article/gp-takeover-firm-is-target-of-nhs-rally?sp=1&sq=gp%2520surgery

for another insult

http://camdennewjournal.com/article/boss-of-firm-that-took-control-of-gp-surgeries-is-appointed-health-adviser-at-no-10?sp=1&sq=practice

You must spend a lot of your free time on google searching out the big conspiracy.

I think the NHS is one of the few things that makes this country great. We are very lucky to have it, yes there is a cost, everything has a cost, money needs to come from somewhere.

When I was a lot younger, I had an accident in the states. Ended up at hospital in Touro Infirmary New Orleans.

My arm was broken ie bones moving about inside the skin. Not just a fracture. I had to sit in reception while forms were filled and payment methods agreed. A guy came in with a stab wound ( bloody running between his fingers as he held it closed) they turned him away as his Paper work wasnt right, but did give him bandage to pack it till he got treatment. But they did get him a taxi to take his to the "free" hospital accross town.

 

[ukracer]

I am not convinced that the NHS is more equitable for the vast majority of people, those who work should see their incomes rise if everyone had to pay for medical insurance themselves.

Not a chance...

also if you do not have health insurance, hospitals will not turn you away if you are in serious need and they will then write off the cost if you cannot pay.

You keep believing that.

 

[ukracer]

There are lots of people in the US (and many other countries) who have their own health insurance not through an employer -

Because THEY can afford to.

also so keep in mind that IIRC it is about £3000 per person for the NHS in this country (and that is for all people, babies, retired, workers, non-workers etc), so it is certainly not free.

No one said it was free. Free at the point of use. If you had a stroke at 38 you are looked after. If you had health insurance you would not be.
By the way. The NHS is not funded by NI.

Going by your logic if you don't use it you don't want to pay for it??

The US is a bad example to look at for healthcare costs as it is massively above all the other developed nations for some reason. There are other countries that use the same insurance based system without the big hikes in premium.

Which ones are they?

 

[gaz1]

You must spend a lot of your free time on google searching out the big conspiracy.

I think the NHS is one of the few things that makes this country great. We are very lucky to have it, yes there is a cost, everything has a cost, money needs to come from somewhere.

nah

its just on the links provided

billions spent on private companies

The government will face court over PPE contracts after claims that £4bn is unaccounted for

And it's just one of several cases against the government over its coronavirus contracts

www.thecanary.co

 

[Morrisman]

Yeah because they know they are wrong. I’ve worked for dozens of firms that put their profits above the safety of their employees.

The company I worked for offshore blathered on about safety continuously, but when it cost money or hindered production, it soon fell by the wayside. People died because managers decided it was quicker or cheaper not to do the job right!


We coined the expression: Safety First (when convenient and inexpensive)

 

[Parm]

You must spend a lot of your free time on google searching out the big conspiracy.

I’ve often wondered that

 

[cheb]

just so you know the us has already taken over a nhs gp practices already

http://camdennewjournal.com/article/protests-outside-surgeries-against-us-firms-takeover?sp=1&sq=gp%2520surgery

http://camdennewjournal.com/article/gp-takeover-firm-is-target-of-nhs-rally?sp=1&sq=gp%2520surgery

for another insult

http://camdennewjournal.com/article/boss-of-firm-that-took-control-of-gp-surgeries-is-appointed-health-adviser-at-no-10?sp=1&sq=practice

Were they NHS owned or privately owned before the Americans came along?

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Were they NHS owned or privately owned before the Americans came along?

Was under the impression the NHS didn't run go Surgerys.

Makes a good story in the papers though doesn't it.

 

[cheb]

The NHS do have some directly run GP surgeries up here but they are a rarity. I don't know about the ones being discussed.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

The NHS do have some directly run GP surgeries up here but they are a rarity. I don't know about the ones being discussed.

NHS GP practice operator with 500,000 patients passes into hands of US health insurer

Merger with Centene Corp covers 500,000 patients fuelling calls for inquiry into ‘NHS privatisation by stealth’

www.google.com

Private takeover

Not sure how that's privatised by stealth

They still have to run the surgeries the same way as all the others

 

[Seadog]

It's the thin end of the wedge.