Ac/Dc Tig MMA recommendation?

[Chris152]

I've contacted Tom, hopefully he can help the decision along.
In the meantime, maybe someone could advise on the differences in a couple of specs:
Parweld

• 1. Duty cycle - 25% @ 200A / 40% @ 140A
• 2. Pulse range - 2Hz - 200Hz
• 3. Protection class - IP23S

Paton

• 1. Duty cycle - 100% @ 126A (DC) / 40% @ 200A (DC) / 50% @ 200A (AC)
• 2. Pulse frequency up from 15Hz to 250Hz (Is that the same as pulse range?)
• 3. Protection class - IP21

Does 1. show how much down time the machine will need while welding? There seems to be quite a difference between the two.
Are the differences in 2. (if they refer to the same thing) important?
I've read that IP21 vs 23S is to do with moisture resistance, under normal conditions (inside a garage) does this make a difference?

 

[Munkul]

Duty cycle is a good indicator of how much work it will do on an industrial level, but in reality, in UK ambient temperatures, you're unlikely to overheat either of them unless you're welding metre long seams at 200 amps. I wouldn't worry about it.
Pulse wise, top end of 200/250hz is ok, its not super important either. Having a slow pulse is very handy some times though, around 1 to 3 hz on AC or DC. I find it hard to believe that both of them don't go slower than that. But again, its not a deal breaker, just a nice to have.
15hz is useless, its right in the strobe light seizure flickering range. Needs to either be below 3hz or above 30hz.
Not sure on the IP rating.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks Munkul.

 

[JOEPRO]

Duty cycle is a good indicator of how much work it will do on an industrial level, but in reality, in UK ambient temperatures, you're unlikely to overheat either of them unless you're welding metre long seams at 200 amps. I wouldn't worry about it.
Pulse wise, top end of 200/250hz is ok, its not super important either. Having a slow pulse is very handy some times though, around 1 to 3 hz on AC or DC. I find it hard to believe that both of them don't go slower than that. But again, its not a deal breaker, just a nice to have.
15hz is useless, its right in the strobe light seizure flickering range. Needs to either be below 3hz or above 30hz.
Not sure on the IP rating.

Thats interesting to note on pulse frequency. I'll throw an SIP HP2500P into the mix then I have one and it works great. Spares are readily available also.

Pulse is noted as between 0.5 - 200Hz

 

[Chris152]

Yes, that one could work too! Dang, more complex. :-)
The info on the SIP says

• Low current output which is ideal for welding thinner materials

and

• 5amp – 200amp DC TIG output current
• 10amp – 200amp AC TIG output current
• 5amp – 170amp ARC/MMA output current

I can't find minimum output current for the Paton;
The Parweld says: Amperage range - 5A - 200A AC & DC (230V) / 5A - 140A AC & DC (110V).

Question - would all three welders be able to weld thin metal (eg for a mild steel or stainless exhaust pipe and for an aluminium radiator)?

Poolewood (who I've bought from before, struck me as very good) have the SIP for about £1010 together with torch etc., and support for SIP seems to be available locally, so a contender.

 

[Munkul]

Unless you want to weld coke cans, all of the welders will do what you want. (they'll probably weld coke cans anyway, to be fair, it's more about skill and setup than anything)

In practice, 20 amps is about as low as you'll go for 99.99% of everything... 30-40 amps is what you'll use on 1mm exhaust tube.

I'd rather a Parweld, Paton or even a Stealth over a SIP, but that's my bias.

 

[addjunkie]

Sip are a company who badges many products made to a price by others.

Both Paton and Paraweld specialise in welding stuff

 

[Chris152]

OK, I'm looking for reasons to exclude two of the three and I'll take that as one gone.

The difference in price between the Paton and the Parweld is £150, which isn't an insignificant sum (it could go toward a foot control maybe?). The Paton has a longer list of features, and however many questions I ask, I won't really get to know how useful they are (I know nowt about all this, as you're aware).

Hopefully this'll be my last question - if you look at the list of features on one in relation to the other, does anything stand out as an important difference/ improvement on one over the other? I'll repost the links:

Parweld XTT 212 Dual Voltage AC/DC TIG Welder

Key Features 6MM maximum weld thickness Pulse AC/DC TIG welder 5A - 200A output 110V/240V input supply Weld all steels & aluminium Very easy to use

www.weldingsuppliesdirect.co.uk

Paton ProTIG 200 AC/DC TIG Welder - 230V

Key Features 6MM maximum weld thickness Feature packed AC/DC TIG welder Made in Europe 3 year warranty

www.weldingsuppliesdirect.co.uk

I guess the reality is that in time, he'll be looking to upgrade the welder so it's not like he needs this machine to have everything he could ever want.
Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[addjunkie]

This is a bit like selecting a wife, if you get it wrong it will be your fault.

Get your son to choose, then when hes ranting he cant use it, it wont be your fault.

As for an upgrade, they will both do anything youd ever want to do on old cars and much much more. The most likely upgrade will be a smaller torch and water cooler.

 

[Chris152]

At the moment he knows little more than me about Tig - he's been working with Mig the last year and recently started a course in welding and fabrication, and they're on MMA at the moment and he wants to practice at home. But there's little point getting one that doesn't do Tig, as that's what he has his eyes on for future work. But you're right Addjunkie, I'll get him to look through the specs and see what he thinks - tho at the moment the price difference isn't insignificant and could well be the deciding factor.

 

[Munkul]

user manual says the parweld will go down to 0.5hz pulse, and usable on AC and DC which is not always a given

https://www.tecproducts.co.uk/downloads/630626000d544701XTT212P_Inst_M_Is_2_ENGLISH.pdf

The paton goes down to 1hz, not sure if it's on AC and DC or not

https://paton.pl/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/ProTIG-200-315_EN.pdf

Both machines look good, the paton more industrial and dare I say it, possibly longer lasting.
The parweld has a nicer user interface and is used widely across the UK in lighter industry.

Maybe flip a coin

 

[Chris152]

user manual says the parweld will go down to 0.5hz pulse, and usable on AC and DC which is not always a given

https://www.tecproducts.co.uk/downloads/630626000d544701XTT212P_Inst_M_Is_2_ENGLISH.pdf

The paton goes down to 1hz, not sure if it's on AC and DC or not

https://paton.pl/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/ProTIG-200-315_EN.pdf

Both machines look good, the paton more industrial and dare I say it, possibly longer lasting.
The parweld has a nicer user interface and is used widely across the UK in lighter industry.

Maybe flip a coin

I'd best flip it now as I won't have any left once we've bought it.
ps - really appreciate your going into the user manuals to help, that's all way beyond me.

 

[Chris152]

Parweld! The order's in.

Thanks so much all for your help and patience. Hopefully you'll be seeing some wonderful welding from my lad in the not too distant future!

 

[addjunkie]

Parweld! The order's in.

Thanks so much all for your help and patience. Hopefully you'll be seeing some wonderful welding from my lad in the not too distant future!

Your paying for it, you should learn to use it too! BTW took me about a year to decide what to buy when I bought mine! Though I did have a dc cheapie first.

 

[Chris152]

Arrived this morning, all shiny and new!
It's rated at 200A and he'll be running it up to 150/ 160A on a standard 13A socket rather than the 16A needed to reach 200A.
Question: do we fit a standard 13a plug, or a 16a plug?
Thanks.

 

[Munkul]

fit a 16a plug, and buy a 13 to 16 adapter lead
Then if you do find that you're blowing fuses, you can fit a 16a wall socket and use it straight away.

You might find it works just fine on 13a for everything... it depends how efficient the inverter design is.

 

[Chris152]

fit a 16a plug, and buy a 13 to 16 adapter lead
Then if you do find that you're blowing fuses, you can fit a 16a wall socket and use it straight away.

You might find it works just fine on 13a for everything... it depends how efficient the inverter design is.

Good plan, we'll do that. Just to try it out this aft tho, it should be fine to attach a 13a plug?

 

[Munkul]

Good plan, we'll do that. Just to try it out this aft tho, it should be fine to attach a 13a plug?

yeah, it won't fit the insulation properly so it will be bodged, but it's what I'd do anyway...

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Could fit a commando socket and then have a 13a plug off a fly lead...thats how I set mine up so I have a choice of amps based on supply....tool station sell the fly leads but I just made my own as I wanted a nice long lead.

 

[JOEPRO]

A rubber "Permplug" also offered by screwfix cheap will take most all thick welder power cables in my experience