Air Fed Mask (isocyanate paint)

[malcolm]

I'm struggling to find any decent information about air fed masks. From what I've gathered a full face visor type mask with a hood is the way forwards for 2 pack isocyanate paint.

The garage doesn't meet extraction and filtering regs at all, but the nearest human is a mile away so I tend to paint with the doors open for the extra light.

I might have messed up on the location of my compressors - they are too close to the garage and I'd not guarantee them not sucking in vapor. I could move them to another shed and connect them into the air line from there. Or maybe alter the intakes to suck the air from some distance away. Or does the filter in the air line and the carbon filter filter out a possible small amount of vapor being sucked in?

EDIT> Found that now - compressors should be in the other shed. Oh no - air line slopes the wrong way!

And there's blueline hose which I'm apparantly supposed to use between reg and mask. Presumably so I don't breathe in the insides of a rubber hose.

Quite baffled at the moment by the lack of info about these things. Can anyone recommend anywhere with information or installation guidelines? Also any masks people recommend? I've got my eyes on a Willson Airvisor MV for £120 plus the hoses.

 

[snowcat]

I have one bought for a different purpose, but it is an air fed paint mask, Haven't a clue of the make, TBH on I thought it was a terrable price for the quality of the thing, It consist of the mask a belt and a little reg to adjust the flow, the mask itself has little plastic covers that you just pull off as they get soiled, as well as the mask you are quite right you will need the proper pipe (although I just used low toxic food pipe) as i refused to pay another £100 for the stuff and a set of filters, one of these containing charcol....

All in all it was a bloody rip off, bought it around 7-8 years ago and got little change from £400.... you will also have the joys of paying the governments bit..

 

[malcolm]

Sounds like prices have come down a little. And most seem to come with a charcoal filter attached to the belt these days. And some attempt at a regulator. Proper blue pipe is only £40 for 10m.

I'll have to check my filter - it's £150 new and a nice green colour (pulled from a skip still brand new) - I'll check the info with that to see if it'll support a mask. Said it would do oil and water. Do you plug yours into your air system?

 

[snowcat]

yep I just plug mine into the main line, The charcoal filters were always standard in the mask, in where the little screw reg is, but your probably still get one in your filter bank, these have 3 filters of different microns, all with traps and and the final has the charcoal in it, these were made just for air feds not for any other purpose...

The prices do seem a tad more reasonable, I can take a picture of the mask and filter bank If it will help......

 

[malcolm]

Ahh - filter bank - those would bring todays price back to what you paid. I think we're expected to filter our own air these days saving the considerable cost of those things and relying on the carbon filters. Though that's another thing I can't find any real information about.

I suspect the problem is the air installations in workplaces tend to be done by pro types so there's not a lot of DIY orientated info on the web.

 

[eil]

Are you going to be doing a lot of 2K spraying, as I understand you can get a disposable from 3M with a life of 28 days after opening had read about it and was thinking of trying one out as I spray a car or van about once a year or so.

 

[snowcat]

Ohh your like this found one in a catalogue breathable air filter 2 stage, £261.80+VAT thats there list, there one of them firms that no one pays the list but even so.....

BTW did just the same had no info on the gear bought the mask then with the mask, was a list of all the other gear you need to use!

 

[malcolm]

Are you going to be doing a lot of 2K spraying, as I understand you can get a disposable from 3M with a life of 28 days after opening had read about it and was thinking of trying one out as I spray a car or van about once a year or so.

I've got one of those already and used it to spray the 2K primer. But I'm not confident with it at all. You rely on the seal quite heavilly (have to shave) and it doesn't cover the eyes or the rest of the face so the 2K can be absorbed in there. HSE pdf about it is scary - nasty long term asthma seems to be the risk which I'd like to avoid for the sake of a hundred quid or two.

My friend sharing the garage also wants to spray in 2 pack this summer, so he can share the cost. Or die horribly if he's mean with his cash.

 

[malcolm]

Ohh your like this found one in a catalogue breathable air filter 2 stage, £261.80+VAT thats there list, there one of them firms that no one pays the list but even so.....

BTW did just the same had no info on the gear bought the mask then with the mask, was a list of all the other gear you need to use!

Yup - that's exactly where I am at the moment. I even emailed an eBay seller asking what else extra will I need. Just a couple of hoses they said. Good old eBay. They could be right of course - I've found no conflicting info.

Would be nice to order something as the car is ready for top coat. Plenty of time with the normal postal system to the farm to alter the angles of the pipes and stick the compressors in the far away shed. Which would also sort my security problem - still haven't put a door on the compressor house.

Think I've got far enough to understand that the compressors need to suck in clean air, that blueline (or similar) hoses are good. So probably it's down to the filtration system. Class D air has been mentioned elsewhere - that's breathable stuff used in aeroplanes as far as I can figure which may contain the common cold but shouldn't have much jet fuel in it.

How many CFM does your mask use Snowy?

 

[snowcat]

Yup - that's exactly where I am at the moment. I even emailed an eBay seller asking what else extra will I need. Just a couple of hoses they said. Good old eBay. They could be right of course - I've found no conflicting info.

Would be nice to order something as the car is ready for top coat. Plenty of time with the normal postal system to the farm to alter the angles of the pipes and stick the compressors in the far away shed. Which would also sort my security problem - still haven't put a door on the compressor house.

Think I've got far enough to understand that the compressors need to suck in clean air, that blueline (or similar) hoses are good. So probably it's down to the filtration system. Class D air has been mentioned elsewhere - that's breathable stuff used in aeroplanes as far as I can figure which may contain the common cold but shouldn't have much jet fuel in it.

How many CFM does your mask use Snowy?

Oh couldn't give the CFM but just found the instruction book from my set up (the system does work!) 130-210Lt/min of air it uses!!!!, when I had my little 200L Single stage compressor it struggled, the problem is your get away with less air on a cool day in the winter, but get a hot day and your have to crank up the air to A) keep cool, B) to stop it fogging....

With the tripple stage I bought to power big air tools with its not a problem, but If your gona be spraying at the same time, your going to need some hefty CFM...

I think your need a filter bank, my book says you do!! It says 20 micron/5micron and a 0.1 micron coalescing filter should be used..

 

[eil]

Knew about the asthma hazards as I do suffer from it but did not know about it affecting the eyes, used to work for a well known brake and clutch manufacturer and the safety officer used to be allways on the backs of the mixing room guys for coming to work unshaven. hope your mate hasent got any contageous disease if your going to be sharing

 

[rusty69bus]

cfm - don't foget to wind up the output for an air fed mask

 

[malcolm]

Knew about the asthma hazards as I do suffer from it but did not know about it affecting the eyes, used to work for a well known brake and clutch manufacturer and the safety officer used to be allways on the backs of the mixing room guys for coming to work unshaven. hope your mate hasent got any contageous disease if your going to be sharing

My friend has the mask after me, so that'll be his trouble. I do have a finger nail that's falling off just now. Possible sign of Leprosy. Though it could have been a hammer.

My feeling from reading so far is 2K can get in to the system via the eyes and skin and still give you asthma that way. More a sensitising of the immune system than a lung thing. Not enough information about for me to be sure.

 

[seanc]

i have a wilson air fed mask in the garage, used it a couple of times a few years back for spraying some 2k and havnt used it since, comes with mask/pipe/hood/belt/carbon filter etc. you can ahve it for £50 if you want it

pm me if your interested

 

[ger]

Thats a bargain !

I bought my Willson earlier this year, ran it off of of a 3hp, belt drive compressor and the gun off of another...

Make sure you have the appropriate all over suit and latex gloves.....2k can be very nasty to your lungs...

CHeers
Gerry

 

[GeorgeB]

Is it not possible to fill a spare gas bottle with compressed ambient air to 100psi, 200psi or whatever it will take and your car tyre type compressor can provide. Then connect up a regulator and filters, as used in diving perhaps. A clean odour-free bottle would obviously be preferable. A co2 bottle perhaps. Then breathe from that.

If it works, how many minutes of air would you get? Quite a few minutes, I suggest. More than enough for a spraying session. And it should be quite cheap to set up. You'd avoid paint-laden air going into a compressor and it would not draw on energy needed by the compressor for spraying paint.

 

[malcolm]

Thanks seanc - have sent a PM.

I've been wondering about air demand. I've got a 3hp compressor plus a 1.5hp compressor which together have 200L storage and I guess would output maybe 18cfm if I'm lucky. The gun is about 8cfm. I'm guessing the mask would be about 8cfm as well. I ought to get away with it though it's pushing it. Though it might be a lot easier to invest in another reg and filter and run off my old 8cfm compressor.

Disposable suit is organised and gloves definately.

 

[Drains]

For running a mask, could you not use the old hoover off the outlet? Well maybe not the hoover, but one of those el cheapo vacs from M/Mart would do - low pressure required - all cfm.

Waste of a good compressor IMO!

 

[PWP]

Rough guide

I paint motorcycles for a living and use nothing but 2k paint and primers

This compressor

[/IMG]

which is a 420/200 SIP has problems running a Devilbiss GTI with a 110 air cap (@ 9.2 cfm ) and this at the same time

[/IMG]

so I use a Devilbiss SRI ( half sized gun ) there is no problem with air supply and it is really economic with paint

As for air quality, don't feck about, you NEED a regulator with a coalescent filter for breathing and your compressor as far away from pollution as possible

This is a 3M filter

[/IMG]

The orange mask is from Devilbiss ( too bloody expensive for me ..... so I borrowed this one 4 years ago )
The Wilson mask is nearly identical but at a better price ( always use visor covers with both masks... if you get over spray on the Devilbiss visor it can be wiped off with thinners, you can't do that with the Wilson as it melts the visor )

Hope this helps

 

[malcolm]

For filters I've found a detailed PDF from Norgren. They reference the ISO 8573 air quality standard which says breathable air (class 1) would contain 0.1 micron particles, 0.3ppm (volume) water and 0.01mg/m3 oil. Class 2 air (rating of my current filtering) is 1 micron 16ppm water and 0.1mg/m3 oil. Close but no cigar.

More from an eBay filter seller on a 3 stage filter system (from http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-Stage-Air-F...9770783QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116 ) Though I'm not sure that's correct - second and third filters seem a little smaller than everyone else says.

Stage 1 - Primary pre-filter (5 micron)
Pre-filter removes larger particles and bulk emulsified water, giving essential and long life protection to 2nd and 3rd filters

Stage 2 - Coalescent filter (0.01 micron)
Coalescent filter ulta- high efficiency, removes secondary oil and water, giving a remaining oil content of 0.01ppm (typical) after oil removal element. Fitted with an in line pressure gauge, indicating the output pressure from the filter

Stage 3 - Carbon filter (0.001 micron)
Carbon filter removes the odour from the compressed air, also the remaining oil content 0.005ppm after the activated carbon element @21c. The carbon filter element changes colour from white to red when contaminated indicating that immediate replacement is necessary.

Thanks PWP - that sounds like very good advice. Looks like I'm missing the correct grade coalescent filter. Shall seek out filters. (Expensive things).