Air Fed Mask (isocyanate paint)

[miller]

I spray 2k outdoors . I've a airfed mask with all the correct filters but my 13 cfm sealy compressor can hardly keep the mask fed with enough air ,i cant remember off hand what the mask requirements are but i do know it,s more than 13 cfm ,so you have to use a seperate compressor for the gun. Also useing the mask and gun this way means 2 hoses having to be man handled which is a pain. Due to this i now use a double filter mask which is suitable for 2k look on the Sunstrom web site for details ( available from ARCO). I always wear goggles ,gloves and a disposable one piece suit with a hood when spraying and as i'm spraying outside have had no problems.

 

[malcolm]

I picked mine up this morning. My 3hp compressor will run the thing and still increase pressure very slowly, but there won't be enough extra in there to operate a spray gun. Should be OK with the second compressor running, otherwise I can paint from 200L of stored air.

Very impressive things though - tried it on for a minute. Lovely and cool. Pulled it off again and the garage suddenly smelled really damp, stale and musty.

Still to source a replacement carbon filter (mine is out of date), another more appropriate coalescing filter, and a couple of air hoses. Getting there.

 

[Wozzaaah]

Anyone ever thought about using the turbine from a hvlp spray unit to power a mask?
They kick out loads of air and it's clean too, especially if it's fed from outside.

 

[malcolm]

There's a device on eBay that uses an oil-less pump. It's difficult to tell much about the system they use - looks like there's a water trap and then (probably) a carbon filter, but none of the expensive coalescing filters.

Mind you, it's eBay and they also include a PVC air line which isn't really the thing for not shattering and filling you with shrapnel, so wouldn't trust my life on the rest. But the principle seems sound to me.

EDIT - though those carbon filters are very restrictive so maybe you need a lot of pressure to get any air flow through them. Air input looks to be 55psi, and air flow to the mask is entirely controlled by the carbon filter.

 

[miller]

Anyone ever thought about using the turbine from a hvlp spray unit to power a mask?
They kick out loads of air and it's clean too, especially if it's fed from outside.

I've wondered about this myself as i have a old British Sprayfine double outlet hvlp turbine, but i've never got around to seeing if it would supply the mask . If it did you would have to have a long length of big bore tube to lug around so as to keep it out of range of the 2k fumes even when useing the correct filters just to be on the safe side.

 

[richweld]

Looks like I'm missing the correct grade coalescent filter. Shall seek out filters. (Expensive things).

What filter did you decide to use. I'm wondering whether it is necessary to have an expensive 3 stage filter just for occasional DIY use. Wouldn't a good single filter not be adequate?

 

[malcolm]

Seems the correct way to do things is to run normal water traps and standard filter, then 5 micron filter, a 0.1 micron coalescing filter then a 0.01 micron carbon filter.

The three filters are there because if you just run through a single 0.01 micron filter it would quickly fill with water and then the air pressure would force water and oil through without being filtered.

I didn't end up going quite that far, but ended up fairly close. My filtering:
1/ Water traps (drop legs in supply pipes) seem to remove 70% of water.
2/ Standard filter and water trap (I assume about 5 micron, but they never say). Remove 95% of remaining water probably.
3/ 0.1 micron coalescing fillter (the element stays dry so most of the water is removed before it gets there)
4/ Carbon filter that came with the mask to get the rest out. That filter says it is an odour filter not a chemical filter (seems silly if it lets you breath in nasties without smelling them).

Also I ran the compressors from a separate shed to make sure it wasn't sucking in and feeding me paint fumes.

 

[gavuk]

Malc am i right in thinking cellulose is no longer available? 2k is the only diy car paint available to us now? and to spray 2k there is no cheap alternative than airfed mask and hvlp guns?.....is there no cheaper alternative?.....had a quick look around the web and the answers aren't jumping of the page ,i'm sure you have done your homework and will know off the top of your head ,many thanks ..Gav

 

[malcolm]

You can buy cellulose just as easily as 2 pack. There are fewer suppliers these days as paint shops are now supposed to be using waterbased. Try your local paint shop or mine

Cellulose is a heck of a load easier to work with for DIY - dries a lot faster so less flies and dust.

 

[gavuk]

Thanks for the link Malc ,will check locally as well....Gav

 

[Wozzaaah]

Gav, got some a couple of months back on the west wilts trading estate, pretty sure it was from avon autocolours but it could also have been wessex autocolours cos I've had stuff from both in the past .

 

[gavuk]

cheers wozz ,while i was looking around for info on 2k ,i read that celly should already be off the shelf ....used wessex autocolour in the past and they were very helpful ,with news of western autopanels in chippenham having shut down recently i wondered if it had anything to do with not being able to supply cellulose,might get some matched up just in case wessex stop selling it !who did u prefer?wessex or avon autocolour?

 

[spiderbloke]

Harping back to the original thread of the post, I used to use a world war two army surplus gasmask for 2K spraying with a 12 foot hose feeding it.

I sometimes came out of the garage a bit blue but otherwise it did the job until the rubber perished



I do hope there aren't any H&S nazis on this site

 

[malcolm]

H
I do hope there aren't any H&S nazis on this site

Are your filters current? If they are activated carbon they have a life of only a few years (and are stamped with expiration dates).

 

[jugs]

Harping back to the original thread of the post, I used to use a world war two army surplus gasmask for 2K spraying with a 12 foot hose feeding it.

I sometimes came out of the garage a bit blue but otherwise it did the job until the rubber perished



I do hope there aren't any H&S nazis on this site

I bet a good mask is cheaper than a funeral.

As long as you only injure your self by choice and not by ignorance its ok....BUT you should pay the medical bills, not us.

H&S nazis have only come about because people (like us) who should know better, do stuped things & hurt the inocent, & we dont fight the petty, silly & often dangerous rules that result.

Mmm...Wish I could stop sitting on the fence, and say what I realy mean

 

[spiderbloke]

Nice to know you can make a lighthearted comment on here without causing offence.

And, yes Jugs it is purely by choice and my makeshift methods were only employed when I had small items to blow over. For anything approaching a panel size or above, I've found it more cost effective to farm the work out to a spray-shop. I don't have enough call to use the equipment to justify the expense....

Oh, and please don't worry about my drain on the NHS. I'm fully paid up with a private plan.

 

[jugs]

Hi Spiderbloke
No offence caused or intended

I confess I do get a bit touchy on the safety front because having survived a lifetime in industry (with all me bits), I’ve come across many who haven’t - some through stupidity, some through “bad luck” ie ignorance of risk, (because of poor or no training), leading to a lack of proper planning.

Eg Many years ago I knew a highly skilled welder who was welding a galvanised tank in a confined space on a Grimsby Trawler,
Because of the danger of fumes he had rigged up a similar set-up to the one you described, with the addition of a 12v blower made from a car heater fan mounted on a battery box (with a key switch to prevent “jolly japes”). He had put the lot together for a few quid, and used it successfully many times.
It was mounted on deck, away from & up wind of his welding genset, he also had a safety man standing 8ft away from him. Within 10 mins of starting this job, he was dead, leaving a wife & 3 kids. Another ship had passed along side altering the local wind direction long enough for him to get a lung full of exhaust fumes.
But he had saved loads of money over the cost of a “proper mask”.

I am definitely not a H&S nazi, in fact I disagree with a lot of the badly thought out rules they have come out with, (usually through their lack of knowledge, experience and common sense). We have now gone through a generation of cost-cutting and ‘no apprenticeships’, and are losing many of the industrial survival skills learned over centuries of killing and maiming. I think it is important that those of us with these skills, pass them on before we die. Whether anybody chooses to take notice is their own choice.

If I may quote Snowcat from another thread -
“If you are happy in your skills and techniques then good, however people often read forums as Gospel, Its a good idea to always err on the side of caution when giving advice especially on something that WILL if you get wrong seriously injure or Kill you....
...you may be fine taking short cuts, BUT someone reading it may not...”

Even trained pople make silly mistakes, just read the thead "A quick note on safety" running at the moment.

Enough from a grumpy old man, (god almighty, that was an epistle)

Work safely, live long, get buried with all the bits you were born with.


Regards

 

[spiderbloke]

I'm heartened Jugs that, like myself, you bemoan the lack of good old fashioned apprenticeships. I work for a US company that will quite happily spend millions worldwide to run a program teaching, for those of us lucky enough to have learnt our respective trades properly, basic common sense, but won't shell out a brass farthing training up kids with apptitude in a proper manner.
They're only interested in taking on what are laughingly called finished articles.

I suppose they can't get sued for training a talented lad or lass like they can if some wuckfit injures himself without being warned by the company against not taking basic precautions.

Or am I being a cynic?

 

[jugs]

I'm heartened Jugs that, like myself, you bemoan the lack of good old fashioned apprenticeships. I work for a US company that will quite happily spend millions worldwide to run a program teaching, for those of us lucky enough to have learnt our respective trades properly, basic common sense, but won't shell out a brass farthing training up kids with apptitude in a proper manner.
They're only interested in taking on what are laughingly called finished articles.

I suppose they can't get sued for training a talented lad or lass like they can if some wuckfit injures himself without being warned by the company against not taking basic precautions.

Or am I being a cynic?

No....a realist