SmartWerks
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I can't see that set up collecting as much water in the drain point?
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I can't see that set up collecting as much water in the drain point?
julianf
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If you part crimp the drops, the flow will be more turbuant, and youll get more even wall contact / greater efficiency.
Obviously, if you go too far, its no good.
Eg -
If youre worried about flow restriction, you could then run two parallel sections. This would halve the speed / double the contact time (all other things being equal) without the need for additional drain valves.
More cores of thinner tube with the same cross sectional area will be more efficient than one fat pipe. You would get marginally more drag on the wall, but, realistically, adding one more core (thus increasing the dwell time again) would compensate.
Obviously, if you go too far, its no good.
Eg -
If youre worried about flow restriction, you could then run two parallel sections. This would halve the speed / double the contact time (all other things being equal) without the need for additional drain valves.
More cores of thinner tube with the same cross sectional area will be more efficient than one fat pipe. You would get marginally more drag on the wall, but, realistically, adding one more core (thus increasing the dwell time again) would compensate.
normspanners
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Surely this needs to go in the pipe to the reservoir from the pump to get max cooling and water out before it gets in the tank.
this was my plan
you answered it in a previous thread
this was my plan
you answered it in a previous thread
rtbcomp
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I'd agree with that. You could also increase the tension in the spring on the non-return valve if you wanted to, the pressure in the pipe would increase so the temperature would increase. The higher temperature means more heat is shifted so when the pressure drops after the NRV you get a greater drop in temperature.
You pays your money and takes your choice. The horizontal pipes will allow more cooling by convection, the vertical pipes would allow the water to drain away more quickly but that configuration would benefit from fan assistance. If the slope is with the airflow the water will get blown into the traps quickly enough anyway.
You could off course paint the pipes with thin matt black paint to increase heat transfer through radiation.
SmartWerks
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I think the manifold pipe on the drain pipes is not a good idea, giving any collected moisture to go straight back into the air supply?
rtbcomp
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^^ It shouldn't if the short drop pipes are small bore, the air will take the route of least resistance.
If you use NormSpanners' method* of draining the manifold it should be OK, obviously the relationship between the volume of the manifold and how frequently the compressor cuts out is important to stop the liquid level reaching the bottom of the cooling loop.
* Draining the manifold through the unloading valve.
If you use NormSpanners' method* of draining the manifold it should be OK, obviously the relationship between the volume of the manifold and how frequently the compressor cuts out is important to stop the liquid level reaching the bottom of the cooling loop.
* Draining the manifold through the unloading valve.
normspanners
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How, if it is out of the airflow?
SmartWerks
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Because it's in a loop, but I think my original thought was flawed - no way for the moisture to rise into the airflow.
I gather from your diagram your having the air pump and receiver in different locations - looks like a good system in the making.
normspanners
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This is how I should have drawn it but was getting fed up with paint
SmartWerks
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That looks better, I think I'll be modifying my design slightly again
normspanners
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If you need 22mm tees pm me
SmartWerks
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Will do, got 2 systems to make. I'm using a small oil less compressor to power the powder gun so i will have that drawn up tomorrow and measured up in the workshop then ill now how many I need. Cheers buddy
Edit. 22mm with 10mm t?
Edit. 22mm with 10mm t?
normspanners
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My other plan was although this is drawn in 1D I was going to angle the top bends and the tees at bottom of the verticals though 45 deg's and add more tubes so as to make it more compact then it could be placed in a tank of cold water or an old chest freezer freezer, now that would make it condense!
rtbcomp
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Another thought in the horizontal vs vertical debate.
With the vertical setup, half the pipes will be carrying air that opposes the water flow. All the water tries to fall downwards, but half the pipes carry air that is going upwards. This is a Bad Thing as the air should blow the water out of the way.
Consequently I'll be joining the horizontal (or slightly sloping as per post #16) camp. (For the time being at least
)
[QUOTE="normspanners, post: 620857, member: 18894"............. old chest freezer freezer, now that would make it condense![/QUOTE]
If you're going to use a freezer why not cool the inlet air? This would condense the water out at source, keep the pump cooler and increase the mass of air being compressed. A chest freezer would make an awesome inlet silencer too.
With the vertical setup, half the pipes will be carrying air that opposes the water flow. All the water tries to fall downwards, but half the pipes carry air that is going upwards. This is a Bad Thing as the air should blow the water out of the way.
Consequently I'll be joining the horizontal (or slightly sloping as per post #16) camp. (For the time being at least
)[QUOTE="normspanners, post: 620857, member: 18894"............. old chest freezer freezer, now that would make it condense![/QUOTE]
If you're going to use a freezer why not cool the inlet air? This would condense the water out at source, keep the pump cooler and increase the mass of air being compressed. A chest freezer would make an awesome inlet silencer too.
normspanners
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I agree regarding the opposed flow but in a airline system the vertical up pipes gather moisture at the bottom in the same way that vert down ones do.
I dont like the aircon rad method because I feel that whilst it cools the air very well the pipes are far to small a dia to allow satisfactory seperation and the air will be recontaminated by the water being re atomized by the close proximity of the passing air.
The other point about the horizontal pipes is that the water has to run down each leg and is at the bottom of the pipe, one would presume at every bend it has to make the transition from the now top to the bottom of the pipe exactly at a point where the air is being turbulated by being turned through 180 which in my view is the wrong place for that transition to go on.
A small drain at the point just before it turns would be good but a right pain to make.
I am going to use 22mm pipe because that will slow the air down IMO enough to let condensing take place but close enough to the air stream for some of the air in that stream to touch the side wall as it travels through.
A still type condenser is along spiral so that the condensate stays at the bottom all the way from top to bottom but that does not have a massive flow of gas forced through it.
I dont like the aircon rad method because I feel that whilst it cools the air very well the pipes are far to small a dia to allow satisfactory seperation and the air will be recontaminated by the water being re atomized by the close proximity of the passing air.
The other point about the horizontal pipes is that the water has to run down each leg and is at the bottom of the pipe, one would presume at every bend it has to make the transition from the now top to the bottom of the pipe exactly at a point where the air is being turbulated by being turned through 180 which in my view is the wrong place for that transition to go on.
A small drain at the point just before it turns would be good but a right pain to make.
I am going to use 22mm pipe because that will slow the air down IMO enough to let condensing take place but close enough to the air stream for some of the air in that stream to touch the side wall as it travels through.
A still type condenser is along spiral so that the condensate stays at the bottom all the way from top to bottom but that does not have a massive flow of gas forced through it.
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SmartWerks
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I'm still working on the final design, made a couple of mods - I'll upload the pre final draft tomorrow for some expert perusal
normspanners
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Does anybody have any idea what pressure central heating rads will stand ? because a k2 might be ideal to work as an air cooler.
I was having a shower looking at my K2 in the bathroom and thought it is the right shape etc with the correct ports in it in the right places etc and a massive surface area which is finned also.
I had never given it a thought till now they should stand mains water hammer that can be at least 8bar.
I was having a shower looking at my K2 in the bathroom and thought it is the right shape etc with the correct ports in it in the right places etc and a massive surface area which is finned also.
I had never given it a thought till now they should stand mains water hammer that can be at least 8bar.
SmartWerks
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I was sat in the "office" when i read this and was looking straight at said radiator. Good idea and if we can use the copper piping intended I can't see the rad not being upto taking the pressure.
That's a very good point.
