Air tools won't run - just vent

[Cobbler]

One thing that makes a big difference on impact guns is the hose. If you look at the required spec for them, they all quote 10mm minimum. If you look for hoses in MM or similar the standard seems to be 8mm, although they stock 10mm but when I needed some it was not obvious from the catalogue, not much dearer either. I changed from 8 to 10 & the difference was amazing, apart from the additional air it passes I think it must act as a small chamber smoothing out the pulsing, not really sure though, just know it worked for me. The curly hoses supplied with the sets of tools are totally useless as they are far too small.

I've only got a 25 litre tank & 11/2 horse compressor & it runs an impact gun fine, I run it without a reg. to keep the pressure up & don't worry if it's a bit over the stated max. If I'm using it a lot, I couple in a gas cylinder to give me extra capacity. The compressor stands no chance of keeping up though.

I unscrewed the plug in the end of the tank to put a coupling in direct to cut out any losses through the pipework, this was an absolute sod though, I don't know what sealant they used but I ended up drilling it through, then cutting it with a hacksaw blade & removing it in 2 pieces. Broke the hacksaw blade as well, guess where the bit is! Couldn't get it out.

I'm sorry if I've rambled on a bit, but hopefully this might help you.

Cobbler

 

[sport1901966]

I did buy a 10mm hose to see if that was the issue (this was my first step in trying to resolve the problem) but unfortunately it didnt help. After trying the hose I then tried connecting the gun directly to the receiver outlet and the stuttering still occurred, so I dont think it is down to the hose diameter unfortunately.

I think the problem I am seeing is due to the fact the snap on gun is pretty heavy duty, so has much higher demand to get going than some other guns, for example the one I bought with the compressor from Aldi, as this one runs ok, but wont manage to remove some of the tighter bolts I have come across.

Thanks for the input it is all very helpful in building up a picture if what my next move should be.

I am very much considering the Wolf Dakota 14cfm 3hp belt drive compressors - either 90 or 150L. Does anyone have either of these models? If so what do you think? Would they be up to the task of the snap on gun/air saw? Would I be able to get away with the 90L (garage space is at premium!)?

Thanks again all for the help

 

[Wallace]

I have a Clarke SE16C150 which is similar output spec to the 150ltr Wolf you are looking at and any of my high air consumption tools such as drill, die grinder, cut off saw etc. soon have the compressor running continuously and the tool power fades away even when regulated down to 90psi. I borrowed another Clarke belt drive compressor recently that looks almost identical to the 90ltr Wolf on wheels and doubled them up for some shotblasting I needed to do. Both compressors were working almost continuously and I soon found the smaller unit getting hot to the point where the plastic box on the motor was going soft and almost melting as this compressor is not continuously rated like the SE16C150 which will (and has in the past!) run all day.

 

[sport1901966]

How long would you say the tools are running at full power off the 150 ltr tank?

It sounds like even the £600 "industrial" compressors are only just up to the job of running the higher power tools - this is surprising!

Is it actually feasible to have a home air compressor set up capable of using the tools that a designed to capitalise on compressed air as a power source, without having to build a separate outbuilding to house a 200+ ltr tank with a monster compressor??

 

[shenion]

I have a small 1.5 HP compressor with a 3 gallon tank (11.3 liter). It does fill up to 150PSI. It will run an impact wrench for about 10 seconds. Then have to wait for it to refill.

My big compressor has a 60 gallon (227L) and has a 5HP motor (probably 14CFM displacement.) I can take a full set of lug nuts off with it and recovers quickly. I only have to wait for the tank to refill if I have a bolt that takes a lot of pounding.

I have 3/8 (10mm hoses) but still 1/4 fittings. Going with all 3/8 would help.

The big compressor had a crappy regulator that would not run even a die grinder at full speed. A cheap 1/4" regulator that is way too restrictive. Even the manifold was too small for any heavy use on its unregulated port. I piped the garage with 1/2 copper pipe direct from the tank and have a 1/2" regulator with an oil fogger. This made a huge difference. The air tools work far better with constant oil.

As others here have found, the only way to get any decent airflow is to connect direct to the tank with a large regulator.

I was surprised by the small compressor. Being 150PSI helps, I use it to get real tight bolts use then switch to the big compressor.

Note, my big compressor cost me about $200. Pieced together from two dead compressors. The pump/motor have to be at least 25 years old. Old used stuff off Craigs list can be found cheap.

 

[Wallace]

How long would you say the tools are running at full power off the 150 ltr tank?

It sounds like even the £600 "industrial" compressors are only just up to the job of running the higher power tools - this is surprising!

Is it actually feasible to have a home air compressor set up capable of using the tools that a designed to capitalise on compressed air as a power source, without having to build a separate outbuilding to house a 200+ ltr tank with a monster compressor??

The little 75mm cutoff tool drains the tank contents in 30 seconds to the point where the compressor cuts in irrespective of being regulated to 90psi or not. In that 30 seconds you can hear the tool slowing down but it is still usable, after 2 minutes running on the compressor it will still cut but very slowly. I only ever used that tool if I cannot gain access with a 115mm grinder. An air ratchet does the same and the impact wrench too. In the compressors defence it is 14 years old and would benefit from a freshen up with new rings and a hone but it has kept going with minimal maintenance in those years, only oil, a capacitor it did not really need and top end gaskets when I has a look inside recently to find the bores still had hone marks showing.

 

[normspanners]

I can run all my air tools from a 25ltr tank no problem but direct feed not through reg, and i can remove four wheels straight after each other and do most work with my air ratchet and even my dia grinder though i have to use a little patience sometimes, oh btw if I also if i have to work at the front area I need 150 ft of 10mm hose to reach and have 3sets of pcls QR's in that. Comp set to cut at 10bar with 1.25bar diff.

 

[Wallace]

What size compressor/motor is that with Norm?

 

[normspanners]

What size compressor/motor is that with Norm?

I swapped the 3000rpm unit for a 1500rpm twice the size bore stroke direct drive so that it is quieter, for in the boiler room it runs to about 11 amps at 10 bar

 

[Istayinalot]

Has it still got the original 1/4 inch BSP outlet on it? If so replace it with a 1/2 BSP one and get a 1/2 regulator and 10mm bore hose.

I agree, This is the only way you will get it to work a windy gun etc, you need some volume as well as pressure.

 

[simplysimon]

sorry m8 your compressor just isn't anywhere near as powerful as you've been led to believe, 9.5 CFM will be volume displacement of the pump and not FAD Free Air Delivery its about a 2:3 ratio discrepancy so you'd be very lucky if your compressor can actually make 6 CFM/FAD at say 90PSI and to be honest I be surprise if it could keep that up at 60PSI and with only 24L behind it that's not a good combination.

I cant find your snappy model on their website but the MG725 need 4 CFM Free Speed, meaning not under any load, that will triple as soon as you put it to use

 

[Farside]

I've been doing similar with my cheapy set-in-a-box air tools recently. I started out with PCL 'Standard' fittings, then changed over to Euro spec connectors, which are quoted as having 50% more airflow. Even with a cheapy air impact gun running from a nothing-special Italian Northern Tool 3HP Cosmo 60L compressor, it made one helluva difference to the usability of the tool. I'm now in the process of junking all the PCL Standard fittings for Euro ones. Only reason I went for PCL Standard in the first place was that was what I'd been used to years ago and didn't realise there was an improved version to be had.
I keep the narrow bore coiled hose for the air-duster and tyre inflator, as it works fine for them - air power tools are being fed via 3/8" hose (I found 20m of steel braided re-inforced hose at a boot sale for peanuts).
I haven't finished piping the workshop yet, but lines are in 1/2" PEX and copper, with Euro fittings, and plan on molishing a copper-grid water remover once the compresser is in its final spot.

 

[simplysimon]

Euro 130 standard is compatible with the PCL XF series and can be used at a substantially higher pressure than the old Vertex system

 

[penfold]

The stock regulator on many compressors tend to be real restrictive. That could be an issue.
.

This is likely; the standard regs that are fitted to smaller compressors are often not up to much and choke when you try and draw large amounts of air.

 

[brightspark]

This is likely; the standard regs that are fitted to smaller compressors are often not up to much and choke when you try and draw large amounts of air.

the answer is bang a half inch filter regulator direct to tank and then its sorted

 

[Farside]

Euro 130 standard is compatible with the PCL XF series and can be used at a substantially higher pressure than the old Vertex system

That's the ones - I was trying to jog my memory for the names of them.
I found a useful Irish supplier of XF series fittings, for anyone here in Ireland.
http://www.compressedaircentre.ie/p...-fittings/high-output-quick-release-fittings/
Their prices are fine, especially with free postage.

 

[Farside]

the answer is bang a half inch filter regulator direct to tank and then its sorted

Now, that's a good idea and I've got a spare, bigger regulator/oiler hanging around I can remove the oiler portion from. The original small regulator is a crappy thing that's developed a crack on the threads anyway.

 

[Farside]

Minor update - I just fitted a couple of Euro ends to the 3/8" / 10mm bore hose and the impact gun just flies along now. Nearly doubled its speed on no-load, so will have to see how it does when working. Only goes to show the restriction of the standard Vertex fittings.
I thought it had improved a bit when used on the cheapy coil hose, but this is a new league.