Another inverter welder died today!

[Pete.]

I ONLY use the 32A outlets for tools, 16a for lights or a puddle pump. But then my drilling motor is 3KW

Sites have a nasty habit of wiring a whole floor into one 32A plug, so if you occupy the other and someone else wants in you all have to work in darkness

 

[Jim Davey]

I had some fun and games at a site in Chichester, big factory build, the main contractor awarded us the job of supplying 8 200 amp DC TIG sets on hire for the 18 months it would take to build the facility, there was a lot of 8",6" and smaller steel and stainless pipes going in for steam, fire and paint lines (Was the new at the time Rolls Royce factory) so we needed some more machines in a hurry, we had half already but I had to push the button and get in another 4 Newarc RT2000 110/240v sets in and every one had to be supplied with 75 metres of 6mm 3 core armoured extension lead as part of the spec.
I start getting calls to say the welders don't work a few days after I delivered and commissioned them.
Now, the Newarc was a rental company's dream set, it was built for the offshore oil industry and was made like a tank, simple, robust and really well protected against the horrible things that happen to inverters when they hit a building site. A particularly nice feature was a trip switch on the rear of the set that would activate if the voltage or current available wasn't suitable for the machine and it would turn itself off to save it from damage.
This is exactly what was happening, but the message I got was "your welders are sh#t, turn up with something that works or take them away" The project manager I was dealing with was a real people person
So, having a fair idea of what the problem was, I jumped in the van with my trusty Fluke 123 Scopemeter and did a little walk around the site nice and early before work started for the day.
I noted that the 10 kva site transformers were dotted around the walls of the gigantic building on long ring mains. And sure enough, if you measured the voltage available from the outlets it was a nice healthy 115 v, lovely.
Unfortunately, once various trades turned up, and started switching on lights, genie lifts, chargers and angle grinders things didn't look so rosy, power had dropped to around 105 volts by 8.00, but things didn't get really bad until the big loads like the welders kicked in, all of a sudden our 105 dropped to 90 volts and pop, bang go the safety trips and the sets switch off. Turns out the machines needed something like 98 volts and 6 kva to do the job they were asked.
I toddled off to the site office to inform the client that my welders were functioning perfectly and that in order to get their job done they would need to get some sparks to run heavier or dedicated 415 v supplies to the transformers running the welders and I was told in some very colourful language that the power was just fine because a sparky had checked it the day before.
Now my Fluke had a really handy trend plot feature that allows you to plot measurements, be they current or voltage or whatever you want and save them and recall them later, so I was able to put the meter on his desk, hit play and say, yes, you do have 115 volts at 7.00 am, you do have 105 v by 8.00 and after the welders attempt to run see all these dip points in the graph where the volts drop to 90 odd?
New supplies were in two days after and apart from numerous broken WP26F torch necks and half a dozen broken trigger cables brought about by some of the most enthusiastic 'cup walking' I've ever seen I only has one machine fail in the whole 18 months.
I say fail, it fell down a flight of stairs and was a very different shape to the one it arrived as. The same site manager argued hard that I supplied it like that and he shouldn't have to pay for it though!
God I love my job some days

 

[brightspark]

the word ar,,,seholes springs to mind get your facts rite before u open it

 

[Jim Davey]

I was about 22 and sweating at the thought of walking into this red faced shouty bully's office but I was right and I knew it and that gave me the confidence to walk in there and stick to my guns.
I'd have faced him though and a hundred like him rather than loose the hire and have to go back and tell Dad we shelled out probably 6 grand on inverters, leads, torches and regs to take on the hire and I botched the job in the first week!
It was having that recall facility on the meter that did the trick though, nothing better than having nice solid proof of a problem like that when faced with a hostile and sceptical client.

 

[dannyp]

site electrics are just brilliant like that.

the one i've allways thought odd is, most power tools have 16a plugs even if they pull more than 16a. think my 9" grinders are 2200w but came with 16a plugs and the paddel mixer is ether 2200w or 2500w and that came with a 16a as well

 

[Jim Davey]

Because they know people don't have 32 amp leads or sockets available for the most part.

 

[Kent]

I had some fun and games at a site in Chichester, big factory build, the main contractor awarded us the job of supplying 8 200 amp DC TIG sets on hire for the 18 months it would take to build the facility, there was a lot of 8",6" and smaller steel and stainless pipes going in for steam, fire and paint lines (Was the new at the time Rolls Royce factory) so we needed some more machines in a hurry, we had half already but I had to push the button and get in another 4 Newarc RT2000 110/240v sets in and every one had to be supplied with 75 metres of 6mm 3 core armoured extension lead as part of the spec.
I start getting calls to say the welders don't work a few days after I delivered and commissioned them.
Now, the Newarc was a rental company's dream set, it was built for the offshore oil industry and was made like a tank, simple, robust and really well protected against the horrible things that happen to inverters when they hit a building site. A particularly nice feature was a trip switch on the rear of the set that would activate if the voltage or current available wasn't suitable for the machine and it would turn itself off to save it from damage.
This is exactly what was happening, but the message I got was "your welders are sh#t, turn up with something that works or take them away" The project manager I was dealing with was a real people person
So, having a fair idea of what the problem was, I jumped in the van with my trusty Fluke 123 Scopemeter and did a little walk around the site nice and early before work started for the day.
I noted that the 10 kva site transformers were dotted around the walls of the gigantic building on long ring mains. And sure enough, if you measured the voltage available from the outlets it was a nice healthy 115 v, lovely.
Unfortunately, once various trades turned up, and started switching on lights, genie lifts, chargers and angle grinders things didn't look so rosy, power had dropped to around 105 volts by 8.00, but things didn't get really bad until the big loads like the welders kicked in, all of a sudden our 105 dropped to 90 volts and pop, bang go the safety trips and the sets switch off. Turns out the machines needed something like 98 volts and 6 kva to do the job they were asked.
I toddled off to the site office to inform the client that my welders were functioning perfectly and that in order to get their job done they would need to get some sparks to run heavier or dedicated 415 v supplies to the transformers running the welders and I was told in some very colourful language that the power was just fine because a sparky had checked it the day before.
Now my Fluke had a really handy trend plot feature that allows you to plot measurements, be they current or voltage or whatever you want and save them and recall them later, so I was able to put the meter on his desk, hit play and say, yes, you do have 115 volts at 7.00 am, you do have 105 v by 8.00 and after the welders attempt to run see all these dip points in the graph where the volts drop to 90 odd?
New supplies were in two days after and apart from numerous broken WP26F torch necks and half a dozen broken trigger cables brought about by some of the most enthusiastic 'cup walking' I've ever seen I only has one machine fail in the whole 18 months.
I say fail, it fell down a flight of stairs and was a very different shape to the one it arrived as. The same site manager argued hard that I supplied it like that and he shouldn't have to pay for it though!
God I love my job some days

Classic "the customer is always right" right up until the point he is not!

 

[Jim Davey]

99% of customers are good as gold, some have become close friends over the years. But every now and again somebody takes douchebaggery to a new level.
I had a customer chewing me a new place to poo from because I was unwilling to provide certificates of conformity for consignment stock it turns out was bought elsewhere. But the clincher was her account was overdue to the tune of 6 months.
Her saying "You're preventing me from doing business" was just classic, I was thinking the same about ho the £3,600 she owed me would be handy to my business too right now! Bless

 

[Kent]

99% of customers are good as gold, some have become close friends over the years. But every now and again somebody takes douchebaggery to a new level.
I had a customer chewing me a new place to poo from because I was unwilling to provide certificates of conformity for consignment stock it turns out was bought elsewhere. But the clincher was her account was overdue to the tune of 6 months.
Her saying "You're preventing me from doing business" was just classic, I was thinking the same about ho the £3,600 she owed me would be handy to my business too right now! Bless

Jim,
been there! my favourite was always "your rep said" this was often said to me over the phone as leverage under my alter ego of MD but you see I sometimes used to work leads without being so daft as to tell the client I was actually the boss! Now do I tell them I was the rep in question and they are making it up? Yep sometimes and the quiet pause and quick reverse taught me a lot about the "customer is always right" except when they are not

 

[Jim Davey]

I hear you, the best one of late is a customer who has gone bust for a lot of money was complaining to one of the reps that he was disappointed I hadn't been out to see him. The bugger owes me £8,000, he should be coming to see me with an apology and a plan for getting his debt down, but I'm the guy in the wrong in his eyes. I'm continually amazed by the amount of brass neck some people have.

 

[Jim Davey]

In the early days before customers knew me I'd quite often get asked to supply things out the back door, or service machines direct on a cash basis. I'd always reply the same way, I'd shake their hand and say "I don't think we've been introduced? I'm Jim Davey from RH Davey Welding Supplies, what was it you wanted again?"
It's a family business and they weren't to know I was the son of the proprietor.

 

[brightspark]

In the early days before customers knew me I'd quite often get asked to supply things out the back door, or service machines direct on a cash basis. I'd always reply the same way, I'd shake their hand and say "I don't think we've been introduced? I'm Jim Davey from RH Davey Welding Supplies, what was it you wanted again?"
It's a family business and they weren't to know I was the son of the proprietor.

well u dont get anywhere if u dont try

 

[Jim Davey]

Well he found his discount chopped by 10% for the next 12 months because of his little transgression, so feel free

 

[Robotstar5]

In the early days before customers knew me I'd quite often get asked to supply things out the back door, or service machines direct on a cash basis. I'd always reply the same way, I'd shake their hand and say "I don't think we've been introduced? I'm Jim Davey from RH Davey Welding Supplies, what was it you wanted again?"
It's a family business and they weren't to know I was the son of the proprietor.

One of our service guys offered to service a company's robots on weekends for cash in hand not knowing the MD was a good friend of my boss. When service guy got back to base, boss was waiting, made him hand over keys to company car, put his stuff in a cardboard box and he was out of a job.

 

[Jim Davey]

Some people are very short sighted, that was a silly thing to do.

 

[brightspark]

when i worked for a firm i had to go out and price the gaffers jobs as well as do them . punters used to say can u do it on the side cheaper . NUPE i dont steal the gaffers work l i used to do jobs for myself but none of the gaffers stuff id worked there for 25 years

 

[Kent]

One of our service guys offered to service a company's robots on weekends for cash in hand not knowing the MD was a good friend of my boss. When service guy got back to base, boss was waiting, made him hand over keys to company car, put his stuff in a cardboard box and he was out of a job.

With an intellect like that he was obviously no great loss. Its far from unknown to be set up for such things as a test