Any fitters on here? Manitou BT420 Issues

[Brad93]

Have we got any fitters or agri engineers on here?

need to get our manitou fixed

 

[zzr1200]

An outline of the problem(s) might help some what????

 

[Brad93]

Drive issue. No torque. We’ve upped the pressure on the pump to get us out of trouble but can’t get over a hose or up a ramp.

 

[zzr1200]

I presume the trans filters have been changed/serviced/. Propshafts ok, no stripped spines?

Front/rear diffs ok?

 

[zzr1200]

Have you tried any diff locks, if fitted?

 

[Bornfree]

Is it the same in reverse? And is it torque converter or hydrostatic drive?

 

[sako243]

Model / type of drive system might help as well? Is it hydrostatic drive or torque converter / synchro-shuttle style?

It sounds like if you've upped the pressure it's been "gradually" getting worse rather than a bang and suddenly gone like a driveshaft's suddenly stripped?

If it's torque converter driven then it may have gone if it's gradually been deteriorating.

@8ob probably has some better ideas.

 

[jsf55]

Model / type of drive system might help as well? Is it hydrostatic drive or torque converter / synchro-shuttle style?

It sounds like if you've upped the pressure it's been "gradually" getting worse rather than a bang and suddenly gone like a driveshaft's suddenly stripped?

If it's torque converter driven then it may have gone if it's gradually been deteriorating.

@8ob probably has some better ideas.

We had a JCB shovel go like that, sporadic drive until the flex coupling between the engine and transmission ? gave out. I only had the job of shifting it out of the front of the furnace before it went up

 

[m_c]

For parts/advise, I'd contact A and R Handling - Servicing and Parts for Manitou, Redrock, Matbro and others

I used them for parts for the neighbours Manitou telehandler, and Andrew was very helpful. Knew what parts should be changed, what you needed to change, and was considerably cheaper than the local dealer.

 

[Brad93]

Model / type of drive system might help as well? Is it hydrostatic drive or torque converter / synchro-shuttle style?

It sounds like if you've upped the pressure it's been "gradually" getting worse rather than a bang and suddenly gone like a driveshaft's suddenly stripped?

If it's torque converter driven then it may have gone if it's gradually been deteriorating.

@8ob probably has some better ideas.

Yes has gradually got worse. Still drives but can’t get Over a small ramp or piece of hose pipe.

 

[Brad93]

Its a late 90s machine. Runs a perkins 4 cylinder.

No issues with the coupling between the engine and pumps, that was in good shape 2-3 years ago when we took the engine out for overhaul. No issues with driveshafts.

Problem has got worse and worse over time. All filters and oils been changed numerous times.

It will drive with no torque for about 10 minutes, after that it won't drive at all. We think once the oil gets hot and thin we lose all torque.

Hydraulics (which run on seperate pump) all working perfectly.

There is very little information online and the service manual is pretty sparse.
A new pump is serious money. Local forklift place reckon £4k to overhaul the pump. But it could be the drive motor.

There is one guy on farming forum who says he fixed his pump by skimming it (i presume on a surface grinder). Never been able to join the forum to speak to him.

 

[Brad93]

manitou BT420 - Google Search

They look like this and are a seriously handy size.

 

[stuvy]

My mate is a plant fitter but won’t be too sure when he’s in your neck of the woods as he’s based in Leighton Buzzard but covers from Birmingham down to the coast

Iv sent him a message and waiting for his reply

I did a short stint in plant and know the place we worked at together was a manito dealer

 

[bletchmonster]

As your talking about pumps and motors it sounds like a fully hydrostatic system, as opposed to torque converter /shuttle box setup which can suffer with slipping clutch packs if operating pressure is low. They only have a little pump.
As you mention, hydrostatic system components are big money. Place I have used in the past is Whitehouse products in Greenock. They carry a lot of replacement pumps and have been economic compared to a lot of places.
Without doing a pressure test procedure on the machine it's difficult to know where the issue is.

 

[8ob]

As above comprehensive testing is key, way to many clueless fitters out there that will go on an expensive parts changing spree and keep going until they have "fixed" it. Money is better spent on simple hydraulic flow/pressure tests to eliminate the various components. On ours there is a dump solenoid that releases pressure when the brake is applied and that was playing up, that was a five minute fix.

A flow/pressure meter would tell you whether its a pump or motor issue.

 

[sako243]

There is very little information online and the service manual is pretty sparse.

I don't know it seems pretty comprehensive to me if you can understand hydraulic diagrams - even appears to have the various flow rates required at different points (although it's a mixture of Italian and English - haven't quite figured out what cm3/t is though, if it's cc / minute it's very low so presume it's cc/s).

https://www.equipmentnorth.com/uploads/e4WDdxtE/Manitou_BT420_S3_serviceManual.pdf

Whether you get a fitter in or not I'd be looking at doing what Bob says and testing the flow and pressure through crucial bits of the system. Although given quite a lot seems to be pilot operated if the main system pressure and flows are good then perhaps it's a stick pilot valve?

Again without testing circuits I don't see how you're going to figure it out.

 

[sako243]

Wrong end of the country but if you were here I could recommend at least 4 guys within half an hour of me who'd be able to fix it.

 

[Bornfree]

One simple thing to check. If it's got a cable operated dump pedal. Check the lever is fully returning to the run position.

 

[Bravheart]

There is one guy on farming forum who says he fixed his pump by skimming it (i presume on a surface grinder). Never been able to join the forum to speak to him.

If you are on the farming forum then @ACEngineering is the go to guy. He obviously cut his teeth on Matbro and manitou forklifts and has built up an immense amount of knowledge about them. It will be worth joining for that alone but if your struggling to get on send me a message and I’ll see what I can do to pass it on.
That seems a handy little tool not seen one like that before but have seen newer models and they are definitely hydro oil driven

same guy as this link from @m_c

For parts/advise, I'd contact A and R Handling - Servicing and Parts for Manitou, Redrock, Matbro and others

I used them for parts for the neighbours Manitou telehandler, and Andrew was very helpful. Knew what parts should be changed, what you needed to change, and was considerably cheaper than the local dealer.

 

[plewlandsbob]

@Spark plug ,I believe, is the man you need to talk to. He is very knowledgeable about Manitous.
Edit, I hope this is same Sparkplug, as on farming forum. Going by style of posts, I am sure it is.

Also , as above , Andrew at A&R handling. He posts on the farming fourum, as Acengineering. He worked for a Manitou dealer for years, before going on his own, specialising, in Manitou. He is very helpful and generous, with advice. If he doesn't know , he will say so, rather than , bluff it.