BMW F30 starter stripdown

[gerrymoore]

I won't bore everyone with the loooooooooong story of the intermittent starting problems of my 320D

I have just bought another 2nd hand starter off a low mileage (25K) car. It's the correct Bosch unit and I want to just check the brushes and commutator before getting it fitted. I had a 'quick' go at removing the backplate but I'm worried that, if I get it off, it might not go back on quite as easily

Does the castellated thing at the back come loose??

Has anyone had experience with this particular unit ..I've looked on YouTube but found nothing.

Other than 'sell the b****y car' any advice would be very helpful.

 

[frank horton]

the castelated thing will be a bearing cover,,,actually it'll be a bronze bush.....prob will stay with the cover when u loosen the long thru screw's....
I would have expected that the woven copper wire should be insulated......!!!!!!!!
thirdly, Bosch made in Hungary dosn't sound so good to me.......a German guy I know say's "unless it says MADE IN GERMANY" dont buy it........
that was for another Bosch product that went bad for me.......

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

I would have expected that the woven copper wire should be insulated......!!!!!!!!

They never are.

The cap will remain with the back cover.

Why not just bench test it?

 

[hotponyshoes]

Even though it is "made in Hungary" its probably been assembled by a very precise robot or a worker who does exactly the same job 1500 times a day.
The brushes and bearings will have bedded in by now so I would be tempted to check it works in the bench then leave it alone and fit it.

If you want to have a look inside take the dodgy one apart when you get it out of the car.

 

[Ashley Burton]

If it ain't broke don't fix it?

Could end up causing yourself more problems than you solve

As others have said, Bench test it & get it bolted on

 

[roofman]

More importantly how are the shingles Gerry?

 

[slim_boy_fat]

@gerrymoore What they said ^^, but this is a good site for 'how to's for BMWs for future use.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/

 

[Tom O]

When I use to have intermittent starting problems it was always the solenoid we use to take the cap off and flip the contact over.

 

[Matchless]

not sure about your actual model but when I retired 3 years ago (worked on BMW's for 35 years) we were having problems with the main feed cable into the fusebox behind the glovebox, it had a spade connector onto a plated steel strip, went high resistance, then melted the cable and ******** the fuse box, there was a repair cable about a foot long with a clamp on terminal, used to solder join the cable in the car with a mapgas torch..... there were also issues with the main battery lead where it went through the boot floor.... I retired early because I could not stand working on the modern ****e, anything post 2002 ish, always breaking timing chains, melting fuse boxes, catching fire, breaking coils, that plus injuries from a major motorcycle crash in 2004 catching up with me! oh and someone made me an offer for the building, great area, only three stabbings and two shootings this years so far, well pleased to get out of Alma Rd Enfield.

 

[dobbslc]

Alma Road Enfield? We have the job demolishing those **** hole tower blocks! You can change to surroundings but the dross living there stays the same. What a dump.
On the starter motor, I'd just fire it up on the bench and if it's ok just fit it. If it's off a 25k car it's not worth taking it apart as its probably not worn and you'll almost certainly risk doing some damage to it. Just fit it..

 

[gerrymoore]

Thanks guys ...yes I think I will test and leave well alone. This 'intermittent fault' is driving me mad, costing too much and still not fixed. This is the 3rd starter although the 2nd one was a cheapo and I went back to the original. Third battery.

Had allsorts of new cables to and from battery and three earth straps. Even had the gearbox off as a BMW indie said it was the toothed annulus ring around the crank sensor....it wasn't.

Car will start perfectly and then next time it's like the battery is almost flat. It can work perfectly for lots of starts and then uh, uh, uh, like a flat battery. Alternator is perfect, battery is brand new Exide (£150) and cranking voltage is above the limit. Went out yesterday started fine, went to sisters, came out started fine, got home switched off tried to start it and uh, uh, uh. Tried again and perfect start. The only thing it can be ( I hope) is the starter ????

BTW most of BMW engine electrics are made in Hungary.... and they are building another £44 million plant now. Apparently, most of the Bosch power tools are now made in China.

I actually want to sell the car but until it's permanently fixed I can't and wouldn't anyway.

Hi Brian ...shingles is a lot better thanks .....actually been out twice after 14 weeks stuck in the house.........

 

[Matchless]

if it is the same as earlier models the toothed ring is actually magnetic not toothed, sets the tdc position, would never stop it turning over, ever,

 

[hotponyshoes]

It's not something like a leaking injector or a cracked head gasket is it?
Occasionally leaking into the bore and causing hydraulic lock when you just happen to stop the engine on the right cylinder for the compression stroke?

 

[Matchless]

Alma Road Enfield? We have the job demolishing those **** hole tower blocks! You can change to surroundings but the dross living there stays the same. What a dump.
On the starter motor, I'd just fire it up on the bench and if it's ok just fit it. If it's off a 25k car it's not worth taking it apart as its probably not worn and you'll almost certainly risk doing some damage to it. Just fit it..

My business was the other end of Alma, right next to the playing field on the right going north, the area was never that great but it had gone down a lot recently, more so since I sold up, I recon he will have trouble doing much with my old building, never liked the guy who bough it, arrogant, new money,

 

[gerrymoore]

Hotpony ..can't be as the car runs perfectly once it starts We broke down in Glasgow last year after driving 235 miles we stopped to look at the map ..car wouldn't start at all..breakdown guy restarted with his booster and we drove home 235 without stopping.... car was running absolutely perfectly. That's when the problem got expensive trying allsorts to make the car a reliable starter. There's nothing wrong with the motor just this intermittent 'flat battery' syndrome.

I'll get someone to fit the 'new' one and go from there..........

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Daft questions.
Have you checked the engine earth's and key switch earth.

I only ask, for to working on a Ford Scorpion. The earth for the key was iffy.
Gave the symptoms of a flat battery.
Just the solenoid clicking, it would start with a boost.

 

[armalites]

There is only thing more annoying than a car that won't start, it's one that intermittantly won't start.

It sounds like a strange problem, something worth trying next time is to put a jumper cable between the battery negative and suitable earth point on the engine. That will at least show you if the problem is engine earth related.

Another thing worth trying is a DC clamp meter, see if an current is being drawn when the key is turned.

 

[voipio]

Have you checked it's not an immobiliser issue? I had something similar. Turned out to be a loose contact on the transponder coil just behind the ignition keyhole.

 

[gerrymoore]

I've fitted two new earth cables and an extra one for luck!! No key to turn just a push button. This is more of a pain cos when you push the button you lose all control and it keeps trying to start even if it won't ...at least with a key you can stop trying!!

Had gearbox off no problem with ring gear. Immobiliser issue...hmmmm. I'd be lost with that as the electronics are so complex ...wouldn't know where to start but the BMW indie had the car for 4 weeks and he's very good with that side of things......

 

[hotponyshoes]

An intermittent problem like this is a nightmare to try and diagnose. Not least because you need the car to be having the problem at the same time as you are trying to diagnose it.
Something like the F30 can have numerous problems all causing the same symptoms. The car will have start/stop so there is one module that can interrupt correct starting (it has the facility to stop you trying to start with the key if it thinks the car is stopped due to the stop/start being active) and there are about 20 sensors that could be wrongly telling it that it is.
I would be surprised if the op even has a key start anyway. I think they are all push button now which is another couple of ecu's to contend with.
Immobilization should do just that, either no attempt to start or start fine and cut out abruptly shortly after. I would not expect flat battery symptoms form that.

All the clever electronics are a nightmare but they are all fairly well self-monitoring so I would expect a faulty module to be storing fault codes somewhere.
If not I would be looking for a physical problem, either within the engine itself or the electrical side.
A good check around the car for any damp spots that may have caused corrosion on connection points, resistance test on the starting system cables and so on. I would test for continuity and resistance to ground as you will have the start/stop providing a second path to the starter motor so a problem there could be draining the start power from the key.

I expect the best bet would be to find a copy of the wiring diagram and see exactly how the system works, what components are fitted and what could go wrong to give you the symptoms you are getting.
If you can find the workshop manual it might even give you a diagnostic procedure for it.