Can you modify a 9100xx to air feed

[Parm]

It would be a bad job if it was assessed against that standard - since it's for paragliding equipment
Do you not mean BS EN 12941 (ok I know it was a typo)

We would have to get chunko involved

 

[Munkul]

PAPR is a category III item of RPE

Or category II. A lot of welding hoods are only TH2.
The one exception I know is the 3M Speedglas 9100FX and 9100MP which are both TH3.

Testament to 3M's quality and expertise IMO. Most of them just want something that works to a standard.

 

[Parm]

Or category II. A lot of welding hoods are only TH2.
The one exception I know is the 3M Speedglas 9100FX and 9100MP which are both TH3.

Testament to 3M's quality and expertise IMO. Most of them just want something that works to a standard.

Thats not correct

Category III is the type of kit it is. This determines what bells and whistles are required to be jumped through to get conformity testing. This is the bit that costs £25K

TH2 is the level of performance it offers

The two are not interconnected.

For example a disposable FFP3 respirator is also a Category III item of PPE

 

[Parm]

There is alot more to all the PPE / RPE stuff than folk understand

It really is way way more complex than an a quick education from the internet

 

[Munkul]

Thats not correct

Category III is the type of kit it is. This determines what bells and whistles are required to be jumped through to get conformity testing. This is the bit that costs £25K

TH2 is the level of performance it offers

The two are not interconnected.

For example a disposable FFP3 respirator is also a Category III item of PPE

Ah Sorry, my mistake! I'm used to P2/P3 levels but not TH2/TH3.

 

[Munkul]

There is alot more to all the PPE / RPE stuff than folk understand

It really is way way more complex than an a quick education from the internet

You're quite right (and we know you're an expert in the field) but if the HSE demanded that no-one was allowed to wear a PAPR welding hood without understanding every single facet of RPE, you would be able to count the remaining fabrication companies on a single hand.
All we need to know, is what we need to know!

 

[Parm]

You're quite right (and we know you're an expert in the field) but if the HSE demanded that no-one was allowed to wear a PAPR welding hood without understanding every single facet of RPE, you would be able to count the remaining fabrication companies on a single hand.
All we need to know, is what we need to know!

im no expert on RPE, it’s just something I’ve worked with for the last year to help the National effort.

PAPR is very good, and if you can afford it in my personal opinion it puts way more comfortable than tight fitting RPE. For welding the whole system works very well

professionally I’d much prefer that there were ventilation systems to provide control at source. But I’m a real world it’s and fully appreciate that isn’t always possible, hence PAPR.

What should happen is that a competent person specs the correct kit, what actually happens is the folk blast around on the net buy what they think is right and it turns out to be wrong. I see this all the time

on this forum and particularly with the pro welders (I think you are) folk tend to stick with the reputable brands and buy quality kit

the reason I got excercised at the start of the thread is that it’s unacceptable/ illegal to modify RPE. Manufactures go to great lengths to test and demonstrate thier kit meets the required standards. Retro fitting OEM parts to OEM kit where holes etc need to be made is simply not acceptable

we are all capable, myself included of fitting one part to another, including any modifications that may be required. But none of us are capable of doing the testing to establish that it will work as required

what I don’t understand is the a person wants to protect thier health, wants the right kit but then also wants to take a short cut?

my reference to tyres was that we all understand the pit falls of part worn, remoulds, etc etc tyres. If it goes wrong it will quickly go wrong and could be a bad news ending

with RPE by the time you find out that the modification has gone wrong or not worked, it’s too late. The damage to health cannot be reversed

im gonna stick to my guns with this and be very clear that modifications to RPE are not acceptable

like welding pros help with welding related questions, I’m prepared and always do, help any member with stuff that I can help with. I can’t help with metal bashing stuff as I know nothing but I will freely help with stuff I know

and sorry @Munkul this isn’t aimed at you. And I’m not going to quote that standard as I’ll only get it wrong

now to everyone

Parm

 

[Chris Snow]

it’s unacceptable/ illegal to modify RPE

In the workplace it is. But in your own home for your own use you can do whatever you feel like. Probably not wise to sell it afterwards but private sales are sold as seen...

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

The speedglas with air fed helmet (bare) is around £300 - £400 on ebay I think?....surely the simplest option is to buy the air fed helmet and swap the lens over....then sell your old helmet and get a few quid back (if it's in good condition).

I have the speedglas adflo and it's excellent for what I need (hobby use)...if you're going to the trouble of wanting air fed and filters etc then might as well just have the peace of mind I reckon and get the right kit.

 

[Kayos]

In the workplace it is. But in your own home for your own use you can do whatever you feel like. Probably not wise to sell it afterwards but private sales are sold as seen...

Yes but the point is why would you?

In my own home im quite free to jam pointy things in my eyes, however its not on my to do list

 

[Parm]

In the workplace it is. But in your own home for your own use you can do whatever you feel like. Probably not wise to sell it afterwards but private sales are sold as seen...

you can do what ever you want

the question is do you value your health to spend a few quid on the right kit

or will you be that person complaining about the NHS because you can’t get treatment on time

your in charge of both outcomes

stuff affecting your health doesn’t know if you are at home or work

EDIT : re sales, private or business, unless your PPE is CE or now UKCA marked its illegal. No questions asked. It costs lots of money to get that accreditation

 

[Pete.]

Modifying any kind of PPE/RPE in the workplace is illegal. Hell, I was wire sawing in the middle of summer so I cut the sleeves short on my orange overalls to stop the abrasive slurry it produces from irritating my forearms. Safety auditer picked it up, though he was cool he just strung me along for a bit then let me go with a chuckle.

 

[fire hazzard]

In my personal experience, health & safety is not practiced by all employers to a recognised standard. Which can be to the detriment of some unfortunate employees, sadly some are unaware to the risks they are being exposed to. In my experience I have encountered the following : no heating/hot water/fume extraction/dangerous unstable floors/big hole in floor/poor lighting/lack of maintenance to equipment(factory extractor caught fire) welding of galvanised / or painted items/ no fire drills or extinguisher training. The list goes on and on, obviously there are good employers who do value the safety of their employees but in my experience they are in the minority. Several places I have worked for have been reported several times and nothing has changed, other than a quick tidy round before they turn up. Anyway back to the point I would like to make, which is if you work for a company who isn't looking after your health & safety you can leave or buy your own ppe. Sure its not fair but you have to look after yourself, I've modified and adapted many papr systems its not exactly rocket science (blower unit/hose/air spreader/face seal) its a lot easier than it used to be, now with all the china knock off stuff available. Do what you have to do to protect yourself in a real world scenario

 

[Pete.]

In my personal experience, health & safety is not practiced by all employers to a recognised standard. Which can be to the detriment of some unfortunate employees, sadly some are unaware to the risks they are being exposed to. In my experience I have encountered the following : no heating/hot water/fume extraction/dangerous unstable floors/big hole in floor/poor lighting/lack of maintenance to equipment(factory extractor caught fire) welding of galvanised / or painted items/ no fire drills or extinguisher training. The list goes on and on, obviously there are good employers who do value the safety of their employees but in my experience they are in the minority. Several places I have worked for have been reported several times and nothing has changed, other than a quick tidy round before they turn up. Anyway back to the point I would like to make, which is if you work for a company who isn't looking after your health & safety you can leave or buy your own ppe. Sure its not fair but you have to look after yourself, I've modified and adapted many papr systems its not exactly rocket science (blower unit/hose/air spreader/face seal) its a lot easier than it used to be, now with all the china knock off stuff available. Do what you have to do to protect yourself in a real world scenario

How can you criticise employers for poor H&S practice then advocate modifying PAPR in the same paragraph?

Modifying PAPR for use in the workplace is ILLEGAL. No if's, no but's.

 

[fire hazzard]

How can you criticise employers for poor H&S practice then advocate modifying PAPR in the same paragraph?

Modifying PAPR for use in the workplace is ILLEGAL. No if's, no but's.

So lets say your employer has zero fume extraction, and they ask you to weld 2000 galvanised brackets. A months work 8 hour days, you know this to be hazardous but your employer could care less. You dont want to confront your boss as you've already had time off for a chest infection and since your other half has lost their job due to the virus of unspecified origin. You are now the sole earner, and cant afford to be out of work with several small mouths to feed. One night while browsing ebay and drinking several cans of skol, you see a speedglas adflo full set up without the mask for £120.00 bargain you think to yourself. You hit the buy it now button, and proceed to make payment. The next day at work you start welding the brackets and all is well for the first hour, until you start to feel a headache come on and get a weird metallic taste in your mouth. You wonder if its anything to do with the fluffy white particles you see floating around you and the strange grey haze that seems to be hanging around in the air. Anyway you press on and before you know it its time to wash your hands and call it a day. You get home and your other half tell you your parcels here. Thats a huge box just for a back pack you think to yourself and you proceed to open up the box. To your surprise there is a esab welding mask with a air fed spreader cradle, you wonder if the adflo hose fits the esab cradle, your excitement and anticipation are quickly thwarted as you realise the end of the speedglass hose is different. No big deal you think as you placed a bid on a airfed speedglas mask anyway. Beer o'clock is fast approaching and as you reach for that can of skol out the fridge, a moment of clarity arises. What it I cut the connector off the end of the hose, and push the hose over the masks air inlet and secure with a cable tie? You try it and are shocked at how easy this was to do and cant wait to try it out at work in the morning. The morning comes and you start your work day, but unlike yesterday theres no headache and no metalic taste and your breathing filtered air. In a ideal world your employer would provide adequate extraction at source and provide you with a papr set up. This not being the case you provided yourself with a solution at a cost within your budget. This whole scenario is a obvious work of fiction, however not that far from reality.

 

[Kayos]

So lets say your employer has zero fume extraction, and they ask you to weld 2000 galvanised brackets. A months work 8 hour days, you know this to be hazardous but your employer could care less. You dont want to confront your boss as you've already had time off for a chest infection and since your other half has lost their job due to the virus of unspecified origin. You are now the sole earner, and cant afford to be out of work with several small mouths to feed. One night while browsing ebay and drinking several cans of skol, you see a speedglas adflo full set up without the mask for £120.00 bargain you think to yourself. You hit the buy it now button, and proceed to make payment. The next day at work you start welding the brackets and all is well for the first hour, until you start to feel a headache come on and get a weird metallic taste in your mouth. You wonder if its anything to do with the fluffy white particles you see floating around you and the strange grey haze that seems to be hanging around in the air. Anyway you press on and before you know it its time to wash your hands and call it a day. You get home and your other half tell you your parcels here. Thats a huge box just for a back pack you think to yourself and you proceed to open up the box. To your surprise there is a esab welding mask with a air fed spreader cradle, you wonder if the adflo hose fits the esab cradle, your excitement and anticipation are quickly thwarted as you realise the end of the speedglass hose is different. No big deal you think as you placed a bid on a airfed speedglas mask anyway. Beer o'clock is fast approaching and as you reach for that can of skol out the fridge, a moment of clarity arises. What it I cut the connector off the end of the hose, and push the hose over the masks air inlet and secure with a cable tie? You try it and are shocked at how easy this was to do and cant wait to try it out at work in the morning. The morning comes and you start your work day, but unlike yesterday theres no headache and no metalic taste and your breathing filtered air. In a ideal world your employer would provide adequate extraction at source and provide you with a papr set up. This not being the case you provided yourself with a solution at a cost within your budget. This whole scenario is a obvious work of fiction, however not that far from reality.

Tl;dr

If my employer asked that I would say no

 

[DSR]

H&S is the responsibiiity of everybody. You have a duty to look out for your own safety and everybody else's. If your boss tells you to do something that is dangerous or damaging to your health you should tell him to F off. Very shortly afterwards you should tell him that should he want the job doing he should supply you and others in the organisation that will be affected with the proper safety equipment to carry out the job. Shortly after he's told you you are fired, you should then tell him fine, I''ll see you at the tribunal and that he should expect a visit from HSE in the next few days because you will be reporting him and the company for failing in their statutory duties under the H&S act.

A reasonable employer will not ask/tell you to do anything that will harm you. Any employer that will not provide PPE (of any form) to cut corners is not only putting your health at risk, they are also injuring the competition who play by the rules and quote prices based on higher standards required to wholly protect their workforce. Such employers should be shut down and barred from business for a very long time.

I'd also argue that even a very bad employer would rather go out and buy the whole team all the PPE required and enforce the use of it if they knew their other alternative was a visit from HSE and a visit to the court.

By providing your own kit or getting round the rules, you are not only hurting yourself, you are also hurting your colleagues and family all so your scumbag of a boss can quote cheaper.

It doesn't matter if you lose your job. By circumventing the rules, you are breaking the law, you are also aiding and abetting the company in breaking the law.

We all know this, we should all uphold it.

 

[Pete.]

So lets say your employer has zero fume extraction, and they ask you to weld 2000 galvanised brackets. A months work 8 hour days, you know this to be hazardous but your employer could care less. You dont want to confront your boss as you've already had time off for a chest infection and since your other half has lost their job due to the virus of unspecified origin. You are now the sole earner, and cant afford to be out of work with several small mouths to feed. One night while browsing ebay and drinking several cans of skol, you see a speedglas adflo full set up without the mask for £120.00 bargain you think to yourself. You hit the buy it now button, and proceed to make payment. The next day at work you start welding the brackets and all is well for the first hour, until you start to feel a headache come on and get a weird metallic taste in your mouth. You wonder if its anything to do with the fluffy white particles you see floating around you and the strange grey haze that seems to be hanging around in the air. Anyway you press on and before you know it its time to wash your hands and call it a day. You get home and your other half tell you your parcels here. Thats a huge box just for a back pack you think to yourself and you proceed to open up the box. To your surprise there is a esab welding mask with a air fed spreader cradle, you wonder if the adflo hose fits the esab cradle, your excitement and anticipation are quickly thwarted as you realise the end of the speedglass hose is different. No big deal you think as you placed a bid on a airfed speedglas mask anyway. Beer o'clock is fast approaching and as you reach for that can of skol out the fridge, a moment of clarity arises. What it I cut the connector off the end of the hose, and push the hose over the masks air inlet and secure with a cable tie? You try it and are shocked at how easy this was to do and cant wait to try it out at work in the morning. The morning comes and you start your work day, but unlike yesterday theres no headache and no metalic taste and your breathing filtered air. In a ideal world your employer would provide adequate extraction at source and provide you with a papr set up. This not being the case you provided yourself with a solution at a cost within your budget. This whole scenario is a obvious work of fiction, however not that far from reality.

You said:

I've modified and adapted many papr systems its not exactly rocket science

So either you've been systematically modifying your own workplace PAPR over time or you've been doing it and dishing them out to others, or you've been doing it but they haven't lasted very long. Otherwise why would you have had to do so many?

None of those are good scenarios BTW

Don't get me wrong I couldn't care less if you modded your own kit so long as you don't do it in my workplace just don't come on here bitching about employers who don't follow H&S rules then carry on to say it's easy and acceptable to break the exact same laws you're complaining about not being followed. What you're doing is just as bad especially as you're encouraging others to do the same, and if you're doing it on here you're obviously saying the same things to anyone at work who will listen. That's called perpetuating a culture of bad practices.