Hi all, I have the exact same problem as this, however it unfortunately wasn't solved by tapping the blue relay...I'm sure I can get hold of a replacement relay from somewhere, but whilst examining the circuit board I also noticed that one of the legs is broken on one of the transistors...I don't suppose anyone knows where I can get hold of one of these, or what I should search for? It's the black three-legged transistor near the multiplug (Q1). It's a motorolla BC90 810 - I can't even find anywhere to cross reference it!
- Thread starter langy
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NotANormalCoder
Retired fixer of welders
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Relays available from RS (www.rswww.com) and I believe that you can pay by credit/debit card. As before, check voltage of the relay and configuration of the pins. Don't have a PCB in fornt of me right now as I'm at home. Will try to check relay and look at the transistor/find equivalent when I go back on Monday
Dave
Dave
NotANormalCoder
Retired fixer of welders
- Messages
- 315
- Location
- Surbiton - Surrey -UK
Jez
Small Blue relay, that controls motor iirc - 24Vdc coil, RS number - 351-588 about £2.92 plus VAT. Larger (white??) relay that controls contactor/gas valve RS - 683 - 8867 about £3.90 plus VAT. BC490 transistor I can't find an equivalent but it's a 1A PNP transistor, probably available from fleabay or an electronic expert may give you an equivalent device. It's also possible that something near this will work anyway.
Hope this helps
Dave
Small Blue relay, that controls motor iirc - 24Vdc coil, RS number - 351-588 about £2.92 plus VAT. Larger (white??) relay that controls contactor/gas valve RS - 683 - 8867 about £3.90 plus VAT. BC490 transistor I can't find an equivalent but it's a 1A PNP transistor, probably available from fleabay or an electronic expert may give you an equivalent device. It's also possible that something near this will work anyway.
Hope this helps
Dave
stigtec
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hi all sorry to drag up an old thread but closet i could find. i am haveing the same problem with my Cebora Jaguar 2000 would it be likely to be the same fix??
is live when ever i plug it in. would realy like to get it fixed asap. is the same on all settings and in internal or external spools any help gratefully reserved.
is live when ever i plug it in. would realy like to get it fixed asap. is the same on all settings and in internal or external spools any help gratefully reserved.
NotANormalCoder
Retired fixer of welders
- Messages
- 315
- Location
- Surbiton - Surrey -UK
First off, I assume that you have removed the torch, to eliminate a faulty trigger switch. If the switch is faulty, the wire feed should run all the time but you don't mention this as a fault.
1st thing to check is that the main contactor is not stuck in the 'ON' position. This can happen due to old age - dirt getting into the mechanics of it, or contacts welding together. Quick check is - turn off machine at the mains. Remove side panel and locate the contactor, which will be a brown/black thing with the mains input cable going to it and several wires connected as well. From memory, it's mounted on a small bracket fixed to the vertical panel that seperates the wire feed side from the electrical side.
The contactor has a clip thing that allows it to be released from the bracket, so move it so you can see the top part. There should be a small plastic 'button' in the centre (viewed from the top). Normally, this 'button' should stick out 3mm or so (depends on make of contactor, so it could be flush). Use a small screwdriver to press down on this button and see if you get a few (4-6)mm of movement. If it doesn't move, or the button seems to be below the top surface of the contactor, it's likely the contactor is stuck 'ON' and needs replacing.
If it seems to move freely, do the next check. - Be careful where you hang the contactor, so no wires touch any metalwork. Then, turn the machine on at the mains, then observe the contactor while turning the machine on using the front panel on/off switch. If it's a PCB fault, it will energise and pull in with a noticable clonk and only drop out when you turn off the machine. If it does this, then either the pcb has an electronic fault or one of the relays on the board has jammed.
As I said in a previous post, it is the larger white(?) relay on the pcb that controls contactor operation. If the contactor energises/de-energises when to turn the power on/off, then you need to check this relay. If you can handle a soldering iron, remove the pcb from the machine, making notes/taking pictures of where all the wires and connectors go. Carefully de-solder and remove this relay, refit the pcb and try the checks above again. If the contactor doesn't energise, then it may be the relay. Worth replacing it as it's fairly cheap to do. If it still plays up after you have changed the relay, then it's an electronics fault. I probably have a service exchange board or I can recommend a board repairer. PM me if you would like more details.
Good luck, Dave
1st thing to check is that the main contactor is not stuck in the 'ON' position. This can happen due to old age - dirt getting into the mechanics of it, or contacts welding together. Quick check is - turn off machine at the mains. Remove side panel and locate the contactor, which will be a brown/black thing with the mains input cable going to it and several wires connected as well. From memory, it's mounted on a small bracket fixed to the vertical panel that seperates the wire feed side from the electrical side.
The contactor has a clip thing that allows it to be released from the bracket, so move it so you can see the top part. There should be a small plastic 'button' in the centre (viewed from the top). Normally, this 'button' should stick out 3mm or so (depends on make of contactor, so it could be flush). Use a small screwdriver to press down on this button and see if you get a few (4-6)mm of movement. If it doesn't move, or the button seems to be below the top surface of the contactor, it's likely the contactor is stuck 'ON' and needs replacing.
If it seems to move freely, do the next check. - Be careful where you hang the contactor, so no wires touch any metalwork. Then, turn the machine on at the mains, then observe the contactor while turning the machine on using the front panel on/off switch. If it's a PCB fault, it will energise and pull in with a noticable clonk and only drop out when you turn off the machine. If it does this, then either the pcb has an electronic fault or one of the relays on the board has jammed.
As I said in a previous post, it is the larger white(?) relay on the pcb that controls contactor operation. If the contactor energises/de-energises when to turn the power on/off, then you need to check this relay. If you can handle a soldering iron, remove the pcb from the machine, making notes/taking pictures of where all the wires and connectors go. Carefully de-solder and remove this relay, refit the pcb and try the checks above again. If the contactor doesn't energise, then it may be the relay. Worth replacing it as it's fairly cheap to do. If it still plays up after you have changed the relay, then it's an electronics fault. I probably have a service exchange board or I can recommend a board repairer. PM me if you would like more details.
Good luck, Dave
stigtec
New Member
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- south wales
thanks for the reply have had the side of and the contactor is working as it should. so will have to check the relay when i get 5 and fingers crossed . if it is not that and is something else on the pcb what kind of price we looking? hope to keep it going is an old girl but still runs sweet till this. orthow the internal wire feed motor week and plays up alot but as i tend to use the external side and a remote wire feed instead of the al spool on gun, is not a biggy but would like to get that fixed too as top box only takes 5kg reels is this some thing i can still get parts for?
NotANormalCoder
Retired fixer of welders
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First thing - Can you check part number of your PCB. There is a number on the component side, right next to the spotweld timer control. Should be 5600931C. If it is, then I have a s/exch PCB for this. I will PM details of costs, when I hear back from you.
Unsure whether you want spares for the main wire feed (motor?), remote feeder or Spool-on gun. Whatever, parts are now more difficult to get because this is an old unit and also the Cebora main distributor has changed recently. They are OK but mainly deal with newer machines and have limited knowledge/info on older sets. Last time I ordered parts for a spool-on gun, it took around a month to get parts here and cost a shed load of money - Cebora were never a cheap machine and parts always rather pricey, especially if they have to be made to order.
Weak motor *could* be related to the PCB. Could you elaborate on the problem? Of course it could be failing brushes if the internal feeder has been well used. Depends on motor type but obvious external brushes are changeable if you can find a replacement. Fully enclosed motors have internal brushes that were not designed to be changed but I have occasionally been able to sort some out.
I wait to hear from you.
Dave
Unsure whether you want spares for the main wire feed (motor?), remote feeder or Spool-on gun. Whatever, parts are now more difficult to get because this is an old unit and also the Cebora main distributor has changed recently. They are OK but mainly deal with newer machines and have limited knowledge/info on older sets. Last time I ordered parts for a spool-on gun, it took around a month to get parts here and cost a shed load of money - Cebora were never a cheap machine and parts always rather pricey, especially if they have to be made to order.
Weak motor *could* be related to the PCB. Could you elaborate on the problem? Of course it could be failing brushes if the internal feeder has been well used. Depends on motor type but obvious external brushes are changeable if you can find a replacement. Fully enclosed motors have internal brushes that were not designed to be changed but I have occasionally been able to sort some out.
I wait to hear from you.
Dave
stigtec
New Member
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- south wales
Hi Dave sorry for slow reply just not got around to taking it apart. have now got it off and had a look as for the relays have two next to each other one blue clear and one clear (top right of PCB) smaller blue one acts on torch trigger and seams fine. but could not get the larger one to pull but is not stuck and is at rest (not pulled) yet welder is still puling the mane contact and gas solenoid.
yes it is same number 5600931c
as for the wire feed it is the main internal feed that is a bit lazy at times worn brushes would be most likely i think is very hit and miss at times has had a lot of use over the years with a lot of it being short but high amp pulse work. i will have to have a look if i can get at the brushes.
did/dose some times staying live after a run, and was strangely for about the same amount time as the run was?? dont know if this helps??
yes it is same number 5600931c
as for the wire feed it is the main internal feed that is a bit lazy at times worn brushes would be most likely i think is very hit and miss at times has had a lot of use over the years with a lot of it being short but high amp pulse work. i will have to have a look if i can get at the brushes.
did/dose some times staying live after a run, and was strangely for about the same amount time as the run was?? dont know if this helps??
NotANormalCoder
Retired fixer of welders
- Messages
- 315
- Location
- Surbiton - Surrey -UK
I have sent you a PM , including price and my contact details.
Dave
Dave
