Cellulose Paint

[Championship White]

If you want a top job, and are worried about safety aspect of 2k, then find a local one man band spray shop, willing to spend 30 minutes doing final 2K clear coating, prepare and spray base coats yourself, then take it along to paint guy to do final clear coating.

I do a bit of bike painting and would never use any type of cellulose material, if only for the fact it doesnt stand up to modern fuels that well, and customers would have every right to complain if their shiny new paint started to pickle!

But doesn't the 2k base-coat and high build also contain the iso-'something' chemical?


I bought an adhesion primer for plastics from UPOL for use with Celly to allow it to flex, haven't used it yet but when I spoke to Paul @ Autopaints Brighton he said there wasn't an actual flex additive for celly.

 

[busastars]

With more modern bike panels there is very little flex when mounted on the bike, think this is why they crack so easy when they tip over. Not like the 80's bikes which had an odd mount here and there and the fairing did not mould into the bike.

Not sure if that matters or not.

What paint is or has been used from the factory?

What paint is in a rattle can?

Cheers

 

[Engineer]

On the dangers, the safety thread here shows at least two, one being a who woke up in hospital after respiratory failure, his first try. And a rodder with "industrial" asthma after using 2k once. Seems some folk are just more susceptible to things than others.




It seems astonishing that if adverse health affects are so drastic that 2K materials are still on the market? Still interesting to see medical evidence outlining this in more detail?

 

[steveo3002]

who wants to risk it though? ive worked with sprayers that paint a whole car with no mask on regularly , they didnt drop dead but you dont what they will be like in 10-20 years time

 

[etlcsns]

I started off in sprayshops with 2k with no breathing gear, they also did not have a dedicated spray booth just another room in the warehouse to spray, this was not air tight with just a ordinary door between it and the rest of the bodyshop, and if more than one needed spraying it was done where it stood. We used heaters but only the freestanding types.

I'm athmatic and have been since a child but don't have any reaction to paint either Cellulose of 2K, Now bodyfiller dust, that turns me into a wheezing wreck

Just don't take the chance whatever you use, it might be that one day when you have the reaction, even if you haven't before, after all manufacturers are always changing products slightly.

 

[busastars]

Anyway lets stay on subject as I wont be using 2pack.

Had a look online at the paint supplies suggested but would like to use local so if needed I can just walk in that day and get what I need.

I know there are places local but I cannot find anything on Yell, what key words should I use looking for a paint supplier without B&Q etc coming up.

 

[etlcsns]

I would do car paint then where you are

I did this for south wales and got a Autopaint international in Cardiff

you can be more specific

Or search 2 pack or 2k, I know your not going to use it but it's more specific to vehicle paint suppliers, they should then do Celly

 

[Balders]

How's about an air-dry acrylic? If they still do it.
If you're doing a/w on tanks, Rowney & Newton artists acrylics work, just lacquer over the top. Umm, vicious circle time.

Celly contains other "Nasty Stuff (TM)" too - Benzine, Toluene etc

Ask at your local paint factors about 3M series 4000 masks et-al if you do head down the 2k route

 

[danelectro]

It seems astonishing that if adverse health affects are so drastic that 2K materials are still on the market? Still interesting to see medical evidence outlining this in more detail?

They are still on the market because there is a way of using protection in such an environment. And YES the health risks are there, I for one suffer badly if exposed to 2k isocyanates, and YES I still spray the stuff because I know for sure my breathing setup is suitable and does the job. 2k Iso's are only dangerous whilst the hardening process is occurring, once the paint has gone off, it's perfectly safe.
It's all about the degree of safety, if, after opening a tin of iso based liquid people within a 1/2 mile radius ended up in hospital, then they would probably be banned.

Occupational Asthma is VERY REAL, so I personally don't think suggesting it's not is a very sensible comment to make. ANYONE using 2k products should wear breathing gear, and ensure that no person outside of the work environment will get a lungful of nasties.

It's the same with anything, take a Supercar for instance, lethal in the wrong hands, but they haven't banned them have they????

(Any reason why my post has been edited TIGPaul, do I do something wrong??)

 

[jaykay]

3m-4000 masks are not suitable for 2k.dont be fooled.only air feed does the job.

 

[WillItEverRunAgain]

Hi Busastars,
I had exactly the same problem as you and I was surprised how long it took to discover which type of paint to go for as everyone had their own opinions which were all very different. I guess it's inevitable that different people have different preferences as they will be based on their particular experiences with different types of paint and which paints they have subsequently become used to using.

I decided to go down the cellulose route basically because it did not require an air-fed mask to use and i only had a small compressor which could not cope with the mask and the gun at the same time. 2k most certainly does require an air-fed mask. Your health is not worth risking. I use a very good respirator, gloves, goggles and disposable overalls in a well ventilated garage. During spraying I cannot smell the paint at all with the respirator on and Celly is extremely potent smelling stuff!

Celly will require flatting and polishing but that's really no great hardship.

I have found a great supplier of paint too. They do loads of colours and offer advice too. They are nowhere near me but deliver cheaply so as far as I'm concerned where they are makes no difference. Here's a link:

http://www.classiccarpaints.com/

Good luck.

Steve

 

[busastars]

Cheers Steve,

Got a few phone numbers of local Automotive paint suppliers so going to ring and get some prices.

Also managed to get speaking to someone who does a bit of spraying and airbrush work local'ish who has offered to bring his gun down, get my setup "setup" and spend some time with me going through the basics.

Few weeks and I will be ready, just got to finish the fairing repair which is going really well, get everything hooked up, good clean up with making a dust free shelter in the workshed.

 

[Chickenjohn]

-snip-

I'm athmatic and have been since a child but don't have any reaction to paint either Cellulose of 2K, Now bodyfiller dust, that turns me into a wheezing wreck
-snip-

The Mirka Abranet vacuum sanding system is brilliant for avoiding getting filler dust everywhere!

The system is a hose with adapter that fits on a vacuum cleaner and connect to different length sanding blocks with velcro perforated abrasive sheets. Yes, the sheets are more expensive but as they don't clog they last a lot longer. I use an old Dyson to suck up the filler dust.

http://www.restexpress.co.uk/acatal...x198mm_.html?gclid=COP54a22kKkCFQEY4QodoHzNiw

 

[etlcsns]

I just make sure now I don't use the airline to clear sanding dust, as is often the practice in a lot of bodyshops

I have a full set of body sanders solid and flexible up to about 30" that cost me a small fortune so not gonna change now

 

[busastars]

Another quick question

I read on the other post about using Celly clear and causing paint to yellow, could not understand why or reason, can someone explain in basic terms why this happens or how to make sure it does not happen.

What would the advantage be of getting someone to clear coat in 2k over Celly?

I have nearly everything setup, need to learn how to setup the gun and decide paint design.

I am guessing about 40-45psi at the gun and 55psi at the compressor.

2000g wet sand before clear coat.

 

[Engineer]

Clear coat celly is affected by UV after a while, in exactly the same way as metallic celly, which has a fair amount of clear included.

Far better results can be achieved faster and cheaper using a COB paint system, and for anyone who thinks doing a one off 2k paint job is likely to result in death or serious health problems, its probably going to cost less than the materials needed to get a pro to do the final 2K clear coat (base is single pack, and not as nasty as celly).

 

[busastars]

COB paint, now I'm lost. What is COB?

Cheers

 

[jaykay]

Clear Over Base

 

[busastars]

More advice needed, well a look over.

Went to one place today, gave me a crazy price for paint and also tried telling me what & what'not's. Even though the paint was a crazy price I think they try it on because they were selling Blackspur wet & dry which is about the cheapest paper you can buy.

Then went to Hex Holdings, very nice people in there and took there time going through what they sold.

Well here is my price list, please tell me what you think.

Ford Frozen White 1L £14.99 + vat

Gloss Black 1/2L £7.99 + vat

Only had Crystal Clear in 2K so Normal Clear Coat in 1K for 1L £14.92 + vat

Thinners seemed expensive though, cheap stuff "TST-5" £8.56 ( 5L I think ) Expensive T7400 MultiThinners £30.11 + vat.

Please all comments welcome.

 

[jaykay]

them prices look about right. what brand of paints?use the same brand thinner