Change of double cab pickup road tax ?

[Agrismith]

I was specifically referring to "you will have nothing and be happy with it"

Which is a phrase which has been taken out of context from a World Economic Forum research paper, and bandied about by all manner of conspiracy theorists as proof of a secret "one world government" plot.

I'm fully aware it isn't an actual government rhetoric.
But was using it as it has become, a phrase to signify the ever growing disillusionment with the government by the working class. And the fact this has continued to grow under labour.

However I am aware that this route of thread derail will lead to the thread being closed so I will leave it at that.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

I'm fully aware it isn't an actual government rhetoric.
But was using it as it has become, a phrase to signify the ever growing disillusionment with the government by the working class. And the fact this has continued to grow under labour.

However I am aware that this route of thread derail will lead to the thread being closed so I will leave it at that.

I suspect we agree on a lot more in terms of the fundamentals than we disagree on, even if we see it from different perspectives.

I would also tend to agree that we're currently getting more of the same policy wise, just from people wearing a different colour rosette...

Especially as the specific policy we're discussing was one the previous government almost implemented and cancelled at the eleventh hour.

As you say however, there's a lot that can't really be discussed without bringing politics into it, whether that's specifics or in abstract.

 

[arther dailey]

This definitely isn’t Barcelona, nope, not me…
View attachment 476420

nice bike!

 

[My Old Landy]

My Shogun is classed as vehicle type N1, is that the same for dual cabs? It does mean I can only drive at 50mph on a single carriageway but that's enough for me

 

[Craig-SM]

Single cab, and possibly super cab remains tax free... As would a specially converted vehicle.

It does seem like it's closing a legitimate loophole, but will also likely hit small businesses disproportionately hard.

A more proportionate approach would have been to make the tax discount subject to being used for a qualifying purpose.

When HMRC tried bringing it in before it was scrapped virtually straight away by the previous government for that reason. The current government hasn’t a clue about business so have no idea how it will affect users that do need one.
I expect more horrors to come out of this government in the next budget that will damage the economy further but then what should we expect from the chancellor when she lied about her economics experience and was actually in customer services at HSBC.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

My Shogun is classed as vehicle type N1, is that the same for dual cabs? It does mean I can only drive at 50mph on a single carriageway but that's enough for me

Depends on payload, a double cab with a payload of ≥1000kg can be classified as N1.

So for some manufacturers it's possible to find very similar vehicles classified as either M1 or N1 depending on the specific options it had fitted when first registered.

From what I have been able to read, the tax changes for Double Cabs will be to the elements HMRC has control over:
- Benefit-in-kind (P11D), and
- Capital Allowances.

There's not been an indication that they plan to change the DVLA classification, which suggests they will still fall into the flat rate VED category (although that's going up in line with inflation).

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

When HMRC tried bringing it in before it was scrapped virtually straight away by the previous government for that reason. The current government hasn’t a clue about business so have no idea how it will affect users that do need one.

In defence of both the current and previous governments, the way our system works, ministers don't really make policy so much as give the civil service vague suggestions, then be press ganged by their directors general or the department's permanent secretary into rubber-stamping and acting as the PR mouthpiece for the eventual policy output of their department.

The CS is generally very thorough in understanding what they plan to do, but that doesn't mean they are particularly humane about those impacts, or willing to change course based on new evidence.

With that in mind I have submitted a Freedom of Information request to HMRC to find out how much they actually understood about the policy before pushing it forward not once but twice:

Dear HM Revenue and Customs,

I am writing to request copies of all impact studies and similar reports or memos detailing the evidence base and justification for policy change, relating to the department's considerations of changing the status of Double Cab Pick-Up vehicles away from "Commercial Vehicle".

This request considers both the cancelled policy change under the previous government, and the projected policy change following recent announcements.

I am particularly interested to see any documents which consider:
- the relative impact on specific sectors (e.g. agriculture, surveying, engineering, construction)
- the difference in relative impact on various sizes of business (e.g. Sole Traders, Micro Companies, SME's, Large Corporates)
- the proportionality of those impacts relative to the projected additional tax take and any indirect policy objectives.

In addition, I would be interested to see any documents articulating:
- any indirect policy objectives which were considered as desirable outcomes from the change in policy,
- any policy proposals for alternative treatments which would have sought to differentiate the tax treatment between sectors or sizes of business.

I will update the forum as and when I get a response.

 

[KemppiFrog]

Why am I (obviously not UK resident) thinking that the increasing numbers in Guv employ (paid by the pop) are thinking up more ways to to tax Joe Bloggs to make sure their 'places' are secure. OH, and their pensions..
Here, it is around 53% of the pop, supported by the rest...Makes you think..

Local girl, new into a position in local Guv., Was given a job to evaluate. Was expected to take several days, but she sorted it by 11.00. Then looked into other things. Like, people clocking in, then leaving for the whole day. Some didn't turn up for several days... She ran a blog, but was sussed and put on suspension... As in, ignore the problem, but attack the person that exposed it.

The cab system does sound overly complicated and a catch/you

 

[Agrismith]

I would also tend to agree that we're currently getting more of the same policy wise, just from people wearing a different colour rosette...

I have never seen it as a case of red v blue. And really fail to understand people chirping on there hate for one or the other and the opposition are so much better. In my mind politicians all come under one lump. I dislike politicians regardless of the rosette. The only difference is which mates they are serving as sure as hell none of them ever seem to be serving the British public.

 

[KemppiFrog]

I have never seen it as a case of red v blue. And really fail to understand people chirping on there hate for one or the other and the opposition are so much better. In my mind politicians all come under one lump. I dislike politicians regardless of the rosette. The only difference is which mates they are serving as sure as hell none of them ever seem to be serving the British public.

True, it more the 'civil service' not elected but keeping their positions secure..

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

True, it more the 'civil service' not elected but keeping their positions secure..

The British CS (at least at the policy level) has a very different problem.

It's been repeatedly thinned down by selling off or closing all the agencies which provided subject matter knowledge on specialist areas, until by the mid 2010's it consisted mostly of generalists who know how to organise deciding what to do, and organise doing things, but don't have clarity on what to do, or how to do it.

So they got into the habit of hiring expensive consulting firms in to provide that expertise, who sent over the exact same profile of person, but better paid and willing to have a crack anyway in spite of not knowing what they're on with.

By the late 2010's a culture of have-a-go amateurism, deliberately constantly reassigning people between departments before they could become experts, and accepting mediocrity/failure was normalised in many departments.

Then [the event] happened in 2020, and they started recruiting like crazy to replace all the functions previously provided by [the group we left in the event] but kept looking for people in the "generalist" mould, rather than taking it as an opportunity to replenish the brain drain of the preceding 30+ years.

Plus the pay is abysmal compared to other opportunities with the same high entry requirements, so the idea of attracting people in from the private sector is something of a pipe dream, so they're dependent on conning younger people to join before their career takes off and institutionalising them.

In spite of the biting criticism, I do know and respect lots of good hardworking civil servants who really make a contribution, but they all either:
- seem to have had to basically destroy their career progression opportunities to find and keep a job they're good at,
- are in mid/upper-level administrative or operational roles, and won't get promoted because they're too useful doing what they're doing.

 

[Mick Annick]

nice bike!

It is, though a bit temperamental

 

[bump]

Shmeh, the only ones I see round here are in Sainsbury's or the gym car park. Never at the agricultural suppliers or in a builders merchant.

 

[J1nx]

The single cab we have on the farm doesn’t much look like the double cabs I see in the supermarket on a weekend.
All leather with big screens and baby seats, less mud than a RR in Chelsea, it was bound to happen, shame some genuine people will be affected.

 

[addjunkie]

Shmeh, the only ones I see round here are in Sainsbury's or the gym car park. Never at the agricultural suppliers or in a builders merchant.

Guess that depends where you live and shop. Most round these parts including me use them for their designed purpose. A common sight at agricultural suppliers, most common thing in the mart car park. Often seen in the forest too, used by the folk who work in there.