Compressor face off

[Thrashsmith]

Hello folks,

I'm in need of a compressor for occassional spray painting (garden gates, railings etc) and for occassional use with a blast cabinet for cleaning mill and forge scale off small steel items.

Although I'm completely new to compressors I need this quite quickly and have come across two new machines I can get my hands on which seem to fit the bill. From a bit of research it seems that blast cabinets need 8-10CFM, and spray guns are a bit less.

I'd really appreciate it if someone with a bit of experience could help me choose or point out any pitfalls between...

Fiac Workhorse
3HP 200L Displacement CFM: 14 FAD CFM: 10.7 single phase = £620 2 yr warranty

SIP Forty mk 2 on wheels with 7 piece kit
3HP 150L Displacement CFM: 13 FAD CFM: 8.5 single phase = £652 2 yr warranty

I haven't spoken to anyone about the Fiac Workhorse unit yet but I spoke to the salesman in my local tool shop about the SIP unit. He reckons the SIP willl be up to the job, though added it would need an oil separator for my vinyl spray painting, but this is only £20 ish.

Any help would be appreciated, cheers.

 

[rtbcomp]

I bought a 3HP SIP and it's been a nightmare. It won't start from cold unless the tank is completely empty, and even then it only just makes it.

I also have one of these https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/se16c150-air-compressor/ which has been great for the past 10 years.

 

[tinman123]

14cfm on a 200ltr tank is a bit slack for today imo, id want a min of 19cfm tbh. but of course the old 14cfm should be easily started but its going to be forever roaring away to fill up, it would only annoy me unless it was far from the shed so as i couldn't hear it drumming away.

im a magnum compressor man but its just personal choice, i personally wouldn't entertain sip tbh.
altho that clarke that rtbcomp has in his post would be a good compressor, just the cfm is a bit low on it for my liking, be a better compressor than either of the other two id say altho i dont have much experience of fiac ones.

 

[Thrashsmith]

Fiac seem to be made in the UK. That's about all I know.

So I'm ok purchasing on the basis of the displacement CFM figures? I don't need to go by the FAD figures?

 

[Bill Edwards]

Make sure it gives you the CFM at a certain pressure. Shifting 20cfm at 2 psi isn't hard nor it is useful, you need to know what it will do at a useful pressure such as 90 psi. Remember, sales blurbs can be good at throwing incomplete figures around to make something appear a silk purse when it may be a sows ear.

 

[dannyp]

out of those two i'd go fiac as it cant be any worse than the sip.

some compressors have a higher max psi this becomes usefull if you spend a lot of time blowing tyers up. but a 3hp pump on a 200 ltr tank is going to get tedious

 

[Thrashsmith]

out of those two i'd go fiac as it cant be any worse than the sip.

Well with high praise like that I'm filled with confidence on spending £620 on it :-P

 

[addjunkie]

Displacment is air in, free air delivery is the figure that counts, thats the air you get to use.

Roughly 14 in is 9.5 out.

 

[tinman123]

Fiac seem to be made in the UK. That's about all I know.

So I'm ok purchasing on the basis of the displacement CFM figures? I don't need to go by the FAD figures?

free air delivery is how fast you can get the air out of the tank or that id be my take on it anyways.
most compressors will have a 1/2 connection on it at the minimum and bigger the bigger the compressor gets.
if you come off your compressor with a long 6mm id hose then your not going to get a great fad.

the cfm is basically how quick it can get the air into the tank, the higher it is the better its fit to keep up to speed so to speak.
whats the budget anyways?

 

[dannyp]

FAD is free air displacement, its ether the volume of air it chould in theory pump at 0psi or the volume it dose at 0psi. i think

 

[dannyp]

Well with high praise like that I'm filled with confidence on spending £620 on it :-P

had dealings with 3ph fiac units and they seemed ok. main trouble i can see with sip is do yu know what your buying, i bet they just buy i half the stuff and put stickers on it

 

[tinman123]

had dealings with 3ph fiac units and they seemed ok. main trouble i can see with sip is do yu know what your buying, i bet they just buy i half the stuff and put stickers on it

do they actually make anything at all?, id be of the thinking its all bought in to a form of a spec.

 

[dannyp]

yup a bit like sealy. i bet you can buy the exact same thing with difffrent stickers for alf the price.

only thing with sip is you usally cn in theory buy parts at a price thats thoughly unecomomic. just out of curiosity what sort of money are the same compressors from a decent name

 

[tinman123]

the 270L 36cfm magnum i bought was under 1k+v, id guess the 200 19cfm version to be about the 600 range+v so no big difference in the price.

 

[Thrashsmith]

Thanks for all the info folks.

I did slightly glaze over and maybe misquoting a tad but the way the bloke in the shop described it was the Displacement CFM was the total CFM the unit can hold and the Free Air Delivery is what it pushes it out at. So if you're running a compressor with say 14 Displacement CFM and 9 FAD CFM but you're running a blasting cabinet that requires 10 CFM, you'll be ok as the compressor recharges back up to 14 to maintain pressure, but if you try running a bit of gear that requires over 14 CFM...then you'll lose pressure. To be fair to him I've probably hashed up what he said a bit.

No budget as such, though obviously the smaller figure the better. The one thing I am quite keen on doing though is buying via my local welding supplies dealer - I'm possibly going to buy a MIG via him too. He does these Fiac units and I feel more comfortable buying from someone local like him who I can run it back to and say "oi, this thing's gone bust, sort it out" and not have to put it on a pallet back to someone the other end of the country.

The model 1 up from the Fiac unit stated is a 4HP unit, 200L, 17.7 Displacement CFM, 13.2 FAD CFM, single phase on a 30A socket. How d'ya like them apples?

 

[dannyp]

the main problem with compressors is no compressor is ever big enough. but those appels are looking much tastyer

for general workshop use i'm running one of thre big singel phase clarkes with 2x3hp motors the tank is somewhere round 200 - 250 ltrs for air tools/ blowing machenary out/ sprayguns/ even the airfed mask as well. for blasting it'll cope.

you can blast on 3hp but its tedious you ether have a tiny nossel and lots of patience or bigger nossel and lots of waiting if your only doing small items occasionaly it wont seem so bad the extra hp of the bigger fiac will be worth it imo

 

[dannyp]

but the extra motor power is reflected in the other specs as well.

if it's like the generic 2.5 HP 25ltr compressor i once had, they arn't actualy compressors i came to the conclusion it was a noisey heater that produced compressed air as a byproduct. the pump leacked on the valves, round the piston ( had never met a rocking piston till then ether ) and the volumetric efficency of the pump itself was shocking ( yes i was sad enough to attach a MAF on an aftermarket ecu to it out of curiosity )

 

[armalites]

R-Tech supply FIAC units, R-Tech have a very good reputation for customer support so I would guess they are fine. As Danny said it would always be nice to have more air faster but you have to draw the line somewhere. The problem is once you have a compressor it opens up a whole new wallet wound. Given the original requirements I would have thought the FIAC unit would fine, it's actually refreshing to see someone who has put a reasonable budget together instead of "I've got £100 and I want to spray 4 cars a week". I run an old Snap On unit 14CFM 200L running on a 32A supply, runs everything with no issues. I have got a road compressor for the blast cabinet because it requires 30CFM continuously.

I would buy the FIAC over the SIP, it comes with an on site warranty.

 

[Thrashsmith]

I rang Fiac for advice - they guided me towards a 5.5HP, 200L, 21 Displacement CFM, 17 FAD CFM, 3 phase. £915+ (but VAT registered).
Is this sensible or getting silly? I'm a solo blacksmith wanting to blast clean the odd small product & wanting to spray paint garden gates. I don't do cars, industrial work etc.

 

[addjunkie]

If you have 3 phase juice id say not, you can never have enough air for blasting.