Craig-SM
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Fixed that for you.
- Thread starter Keithmac
- Start date
Fixed that for you.
Trevorleach
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Greta for jub clips in awkward places.
Trevorleach
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Air still has its place, there are some bolts the battery gun will not touch, only air will do the job, plus air is smaller than cordless so for access some jobs need air, tbh I try and use battery all the time as air lines are a pita.
PhillipM
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Yep, for people are advocating the size of air, there are some places where getting in with an airhose and the bulk and drag it causes is far more hassle than a compact battery unit these days.
There's not a whole lot a big Makita or Milkwaukee won't take off that air can either any more.
There's not a whole lot a big Makita or Milkwaukee won't take off that air can either any more.
Ubique
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Vehicle workshops will never go air-less, so why not use the 'free' power rather than having to spend on spare & replacement batteries?
Obviously a different game if you work mobile or are starting out, but your first choice of battery power will tie you into that 'ecosystem' of battery/charger/tool combination whereas air allows you to choose & use from any manufacturer without having to replicate critical parts.
ETA - I guess I'm also considering why replace existing good, useful air tools with battery powered stuff - it's not going to earn me any more or save any extra time. All my air stuff is fitted with whip hoses so the extra bulk of the connections doesn't impede access - I have a 3/8" air ratchet that is no bigger than my hand grip, if I can get my hand on a fastener, I can get that on it.
Obviously a different game if you work mobile or are starting out, but your first choice of battery power will tie you into that 'ecosystem' of battery/charger/tool combination whereas air allows you to choose & use from any manufacturer without having to replicate critical parts.
ETA - I guess I'm also considering why replace existing good, useful air tools with battery powered stuff - it's not going to earn me any more or save any extra time. All my air stuff is fitted with whip hoses so the extra bulk of the connections doesn't impede access - I have a 3/8" air ratchet that is no bigger than my hand grip, if I can get my hand on a fastener, I can get that on it.
lotus_esprit_s1
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Majority of the time I use Makita DTW300 which is good enough for most applications, I also have the biggest Makita 18v, DTW1002, with 1600nm breakaway torque, but even that would not shift the wheel nuts on an Oberaigner Mercedes the other week. Had to break out my trusty 3/4” CP air gun.
I do also have the Mac AWP050 which was the direct competitor to the MG725, Mac was much lighter and better balanced in comparison.
I do also have the Mac AWP050 which was the direct competitor to the MG725, Mac was much lighter and better balanced in comparison.
I have battery tools but I still like air, I appreciate there is the overhead of a compressor and a hose potentially getting in the way. I run a Hydrovane so noise is not an issue. I run air die grinders straight and 90, air belt sanders. Battery or electric belt sanders do not compare to air powered in my opinion
PhillipM
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I mean you say that but I can point you at at least 3 tyre places and workshops around here that have ditched the air for battery as it saves them the noise, waiting and lets them carry out quick work on the entrance apron as well as do a little mobile work.
Hell I have 2 big compressors and air through the workshops and the air impacts are the last thing I reach for over the battery stuff these days.
Trevorleach
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The other issue with air guns/drills, is they are pretty much all or nothing power wise, battery you can slow to a crawl if need be.
Ubique
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So how do they inflate tyres? a lot of places also have air powered oil dispensers and waste oil recovery pumps, our (new) MoT ramp requires an air supply, as does the alignment 4-poster.
The tyre fitting machine we have requires air to operate, I would imagine most if not all do.
The tyre fitting machine we have requires air to operate, I would imagine most if not all do.
Ubique
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All my impact guns have a speed/torque adjustment, as do some of my air ratchets and feathering the air trigger is something you learn as an apprentice, right after the first time you slam your knuckles into something hard.
I was thinking the same, most of my tools can be throttled quite easily
Trevorleach
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Speed adjustment on air guns is not like the trickle you can run a cordless down to with precise control, plus I have never seen anyone use an air gun on anything less than full power, the real skill is knowing when to let go of the trigger, something that not many can perfect.
I did not realise people still used air ratchets?
Ubique
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Well I must be using them 'wrong' then, I can quite easily and subconciously control the speed of all my air tools - including ratchets. As I wrote previously, I don't see any benefit to me in changing them for electric versions, but if I was starting out now, I'd probably be buying a proportion of battery tools, not exclusively though.
ATGNI
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Never had a good experience with air tools. I did buy into the air tools thing years ago but but just never liked dragging the airline around. I mainly work on classic cars and just do want them dragging floor grit across my paintwork. I used to use them at my Fathers heavy commercial garage and they were powerful but I suspect batteries have come a long way in 30 years. I think the other reason I don’t like air tools is my compressor cannot keep up running of a 13 amp single phase supply. I’m guessing at the end of the day we all have our own tool preferences and it’s what works best for you. I should also mention that a lot of people may only have experienced cheap air tools which are all useless in my experiencE.
not done it yet
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Let’s just analyse your reply.
“dragging the airline around”. A matter of organisation?
“dragging floor grit across my paintwork” Not ever thought of an overhead supply?
”my compressor cannot keep up running of a 13 amp single phase supply.” Any compressor, up to 3 HP will run off a three pin plug. That includes all compressors of lower motor power. What size is yours? A decent quality 3HP compressor will produce about 10cfm - enough for most air tools. What are you using, or how many are you using at the same time?
”a lot of people may only have experienced cheap air tools which are all useless in my experiencE.” Dead right there. ‘Buy cheap, buy twice’ is the age old saying.
Only 110V portable/hand tooling is permissible in places of work, these days (unless a single person as sole trader?), so twice the current and heavier trailing leads or more localised socket outlets required.
Batteries get depleted, so chargers are required and at least two batteries if used continuously. Batteries have a limited life - particularly if operated/charged when hot.
Most battery tools, while adequate, have a limited power output - mains or air tools can be much higher powered.
Spare parts for cheap tools is often a problem - they are not supported.
Battery powered tools may be great for on-site work, but not so great for well organised indoor premises. Lighting is the obvious analogy - virtually all premises use mains powered lighting, not portable battery options.
It is generally only small power tools that are bought as the battery option - all high power tools are either air or grid electric (battery storage as an alternative, for some grid power, is becoming ever more popular.
Hand-held battery tools are generally less economic than “direct from the mains’ power - less long-lived, require extra energy transfer (charging from the mains) and battery life. Their only positive is they are more portable. Occasional use is OK, but continuous use is less efficient/economic.
Battery operated power tools for on-site use is likely a much cheaper (operationally) than running a fossil powered generator for equivalent mains voltage tools.
As I see it, it all comes down to cost and/or convenience. ‘Convenience’ seems to be the popular word these days, convenience stores, convenience foods, convenience everything. Go figure.
That's why I like my electric guns so much. You can just leave it on full power, and control it easily with just the trigger, whereas air gun triggers are usually far harder to control precisely so you have to change the power dial.
I did still use an air-ratchet, but no where near as much as I now use my M12 long reach ratchet.
Trevorleach
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So you are saying hand on heart that you can throttle the air guns consistently, not just messing about but in use?
Trevorleach
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I generally find the biggest issue with air lines is other people, go to pull it off the wall reel and the:-
female end is missing
female end is damaged/seized
female end is leaking
air hose has a split, always be suspicious when it is already unplugged from the wall!
hose is never long enough
Also the rubber stopper near the female end always seems to catch on the floor hoists or in fact anything on the floor, then when you get going the same stopper always catches on the truck somewhere.
Wind hose back up and it will twist/catch on anything it can.
The PCL air hose reels are the absolute pits.
female end is missing
female end is damaged/seized
female end is leaking
air hose has a split, always be suspicious when it is already unplugged from the wall!
hose is never long enough
Also the rubber stopper near the female end always seems to catch on the floor hoists or in fact anything on the floor, then when you get going the same stopper always catches on the truck somewhere.
Wind hose back up and it will twist/catch on anything it can.
The PCL air hose reels are the absolute pits.
Trevorleach
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Let’s just analyse your reply.
“dragging the airline around”. A matter of organisation?
“dragging floor grit across my paintwork” Not ever thought of an overhead supply?
”my compressor cannot keep up running of a 13 amp single phase supply.” Any compressor, up to 3 HP will run off a three pin plug. That includes all compressors of lower motor power. What size is yours? A decent quality 3HP compressor will produce about 10cfm - enough for most air tools. What are you using, or how many are you using at the same time?
”a lot of people may only have experienced cheap air tools which are all useless in my experiencE.” Dead right there. ‘Buy cheap, buy twice’ is the age old saying.
Only 110V portable/hand tooling is permissible in places of work, these days (unless a single person as sole trader?), so twice the current and heavier trailing leads or more localised socket outlets required.
Batteries get depleted, so chargers are required and at least two batteries if used continuously. Batteries have a limited life - particularly if operated/charged when hot.
Most battery tools, while adequate, have a limited power output - mains or air tools can be much higher powered.
Spare parts for cheap tools is often a problem - they are not supported.
Battery powered tools may be great for on-site work, but not so great for well organised indoor premises. Lighting is the obvious analogy - virtually all premises use mains powered lighting, not portable battery options.
It is generally only small power tools that are bought as the battery option - all high power tools are either air or grid electric (battery storage as an alternative, for some grid power, is becoming ever more popular.
Hand-held battery tools are generally less economic than “direct from the mains’ power - less long-lived, require extra energy transfer (charging from the mains) and battery life. Their only positive is they are more portable. Occasional use is OK, but continuous use is less efficient/economic.
Battery operated power tools for on-site use is likely a much cheaper (operationally) than running a fossil powered generator for equivalent mains voltage tools.
As I see it, it all comes down to cost and/or convenience. ‘Convenience’ seems to be the popular word these days, convenience stores, convenience foods, convenience everything. Go figure.
If you get a chance you should try some of the Milwaukee/Dewalt cordless impacts, they really are impressive.
