Electrolytic Cleaning

[MG David]

While the topic has been covered before, the use of the dishwasher detergent in the process may not have been. I don't remember it.

Having done rust removal in this way myself, I have found that dirt, such as old oil, and the remains of paint have restricted the "line of sight" and therefore the effectiveness. From what has been said on this thread it seems that the dishwasher detergent angle may deal the dirt issue.

 

[rtcosic]

An earlier thread on this topic:-

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=7573

Oops, sorry. Didn't do a search before posting.


Got carried away in my enthusiasm for experimenting with posting photographs.
Lesson learned - SEARCH is my friend.

 

[richweld]

There is no harm starting a new thread about an earlier topic. I thought the earlier link might be useful as it was a bit different. There was another interesting thread here:-

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=8024

 

[MajorPayne]

I'm going to give this process a go on an exhaust(I think) system, it's the part of the engine that's between the carb and connecting to the cylinder ports anyway.

Got a nice 50L plastic tank, rusted parts of which I'm going to give a quick clean to so as to remove all the oils and dust that's accumulated then I have to get myself a car battery charger and I'm away! Well hopefully

Thanks very much for all the people posting to this thread as it's going to come in very handy to me in time

Kind regards,
MajorPayne

P.S: Whats the difference between a Trickle charger and a normal charger and would either of the two either be better or worse for this particular subject? At first thought I don't think a trickle charger would be of any use but I honestly have no grounds to support this it's just a thought in my head saying that a trickle charger is no good...

 

[MajorPayne]

Heya again fella's

Does anyone know if this sort of charger will work with the process of de-rusting parts?
it's a powercraft drill battery charger, it's 24v@2.5Amps, I assume the process will work with any sort of DC power supply but would like to ask some questions before I just start plugging things in and hooking them up

I've uploaded some images of the charger in question, an don't worry the drill does not work anyway so it's surplus to requirements
http://tinypic.com/a/zeaq/2

Kind regards,
MajorPayne

EDIT: I've had a good play today with this method, while it was busy bubbling away I have been cleaning out a carb with white vinegar using it to degrease it really, it's coming out just find but hard work.

Before shot: http://i31.tinypic.com/25r0zmo.jpg
After shot: http://i30.tinypic.com/epko4n.jpg

I've given the exhaust (I think) a good clean out now and now it's going in for another whirl, thanks to everyone who's posted on the thread it's an awesome technique to use

 

[droopsnoot]

I've also been playing with this recently, and have been pleasantly surprised at how good the results can be. I just used a car battery charger form the local car-boot sale for £1, an old bucket, and some washing soda for 76p/kilo from Tesco. The centre crossmember mount came up really well after a bit of wire-brushing - certainly better than the brush alone would have managed.

Before:

After treatment plus wire-brushing:

 

[droopsnoot]

the exhaust (I think)

Both, I think - the inner branches seem to be the inlet manifold, and the outers are the exhaust.

 

[BillJ]

Both, I think - the inner branches seem to be the inlet manifold, and the outers are the exhaust.

Yes, it's the combined inlet/exhaust manifold, also used on the Mini and I think the B-series engines too (not sure).

The inner two are indeed the inlet manifold and the other three are the exhaust.

 

[MajorPayne]

I've also been playing with this recently, and have been pleasantly surprised at how good the results can be. I just used a car battery charger form the local car-boot sale for £1, an old bucket, and some washing soda for 76p/kilo from Tesco. The centre crossmember mount came up really well after a bit of wire-brushing - certainly better than the brush alone would have managed.

Before:

After treatment plus wire-brushing:

That's a nice outcome matey,
I've noticed their is quite allota black rust still to remove.. Not that I know anything about this process but I've found that there is tonnes of it on the parts I'm cleaning and it's even harder then the red coloured rust. so I've just taken my parts out, given them a quick rinse and a lovely scrub with the wire brush to expose some harder to reach areas and I've again stuck the parts back into the tank for another shocking time

I have got some of the easier to get to places right back to the lovely silver metal colour but really I would like the whole component that way so I would say another 24~48 hours in the tub should lift off almost everything and if not, it's going back in for another couple of days

Let me know how your getting along with your parts if your carrying on, you could also try using some KURUST if your not planning on going any further to protect the metal or at least setup a nice barrier

Kind regards,
MajorPayne

 

[droopsnoot]

Above photos are after roughly 4 hours in the tank, and a go with the rotary wire brush. I didn't try for any longer as the red rust had pretty much gone. On the top of the part, I can easily read the stampings in the top of the bolts where it says "GKN", but I have no "before" photo so it's meaningless.

From other pages I've read, a little scrubbing or wire brushing after treatment isn't unusual. After wire-brushing I've primed the part to seal it for now, but another bit I did was subjected to some Jenolite rust treatment.

 

[M@tt]

out of interest has anyone used it to clean up bolts etc? I've got boxes of bolts and brackets etc from 205's i've stripped that i'd love to give a going over with the electrolyssis process. However the only thing i can think of to hold them would be some sort of collindar/seive but i think they will be probably be stainless or chrome plated so a no-no due to the gases produced

any suggestions?

 

[rtcosic]

I've noticed their is quite allota black rust still to remove.. Not that I know anything about this process but I've found that there is tonnes of it on the parts I'm cleaning and it's even harder then the red coloured rust.

That isn't 'rust' in the generally accepted use of the word - it's 'rust' that has been converted.

Generally I run the bath at fairly low current density over a long period. I take the parts out at 12-24 hour intervals and get up close and personal with the pressure washer. If you have one of those ultra aggressive rotating three jet jobbies (which I haven't anymore) that will blast off most of it. Stick it back in the bath for another go and repeat as required. Helps to put it back in a different orientation each time as the process is somewhat 'line of sight'. I have had really badly corroded and/or oddly shaped parts in the bath for as long as 5 or even 7 days and 10 'cycles' of electrolysis/jetting.

Given the state of most of the parts I'm cleaning I usually hit them with Gunk or other degreaser first then zap them with the jet washer before putting them in the bath to minimise the amount of crud accumulating in the bath. If there is still a fair amount of paint on the part then I treat with Nitromors (or DIY shed own brand paint stripper), jet, then into the bath.

I sometimes 'finish-off' with Bilt Hamber DeOx dip to get the last lurking molecule, especially if it is an akwardly shaped part with returns or reveals that 'hide' from the anodes.

 

[rtcosic]

out of interest has anyone used it to clean up bolts etc? I've got boxes of bolts and brackets etc from 205's i've stripped that i'd love to give a going over with the electrolyssis process. However the only thing i can think of to hold them would be some sort of collindar/seive but i think they will be probably be stainless or chrome plated so a no-no due to the gases produced

any suggestions?

Yes, many times.

I've used two methods:

Old plastic tub (yoghourt pot, fizzy pop bottle with top cutoff etc) punch LOTS of holes in it. Wire up the largest bolt/nut/washer and pile all the rest on top. Lift out the pot from time to time, rinse under the tap, transfer nuts and bolts to a container with lid add hot water and shake vigourously then put back in the bath.

Stainless steel salad spinner - made of SS chainmail. The POTENTIAL issue with SS is not 'gases' but chromium into the bath solution. As you don't drink it, wash in it or pour 'industrial' quantities down the drain it's a bit of a red herring in my view.

 

[M@tt]

well i decided to have a bash at this tonight, got myself a tub and some soda from Wilkinson's.

I tried using my battery charger but it's a bit of electronic clever one i think as it can give out various error messages and it didn't appear to be outputting any current when i connected it up. (it definitely works though when connected up to a car battery) I therefore abandoned it after a while as it didn't appear to be working and dug out an old computer PSU from the attic

It stated on the side that it had different voltages/amps however i was only able to find a 5volt rail when connecting my multimeter between the various pins that plug into the motherboard. When i checked the amps across it it was only reading 0.1A which wasn't a lot at all. Anyone have any suggestions how to kick the other power rails into action? like when you press the power button on the computer as the fan wasn't running or anything but the PSU definitely works OK.

I decided to test an old hub I had kicking around and I've used a spare section of angle iron as the sacrificial anode

so I've left it running overnight but I'm not convinced the power supply is working as it should

 

[graffian]

With ATX supplies you need to pull pin 14 low to turn the psu on, and their 5V standby is only rated at an amp or even less.

 

[M@tt]

nice one

just bridged pin 14 with a ground wire and the psu kicked into life. Anode and cathode have both started bubbling nicely

 

[richweld]

How does electrolytic cleaning affect the shiny plated finish of a brake caliper piston. I mean the part of the piston you cannot see in this photo of rtcosic's from earlier post - the part of the caliper piston that moves on the inner rubber seals.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_p2hFMH4eKzw/SjfqvvDF4CI/AAAAAAAAAy8/QzVyry2pMlA/s912/IMG_2653.JPG

Would be interested in seeing a photo (rtcosic) of that as I have some brake calipers to derust. Have tried using vinegar on the caliper (not the piston), which works well, but the vinegar eats away any plating.

 

[rtcosic]

I tried using my battery charger but it's a bit of electronic clever one i think as it can give out various error messages and it didn't appear to be outputting any current when i connected it up.

The electronically controlled battery chargers are measuring the voltage of the battery to adjust charging current. With no battery in the circuit - no battery voltage, no charging. You need to get an old battery and wire it into the circuit - the battery charger then keeps 'topping-up' the battery.

I therefore abandoned it after a while as it didn't appear to be working and dug out an old computer PSU from the attic

Yes - an old PC PSU makes an excellent power supply - IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

I was reluctant to recommend them as their casing is designed to be inside the PC tower, not 'exposed'. Also for someone first experimenting with the technique and not wiring an ammeter in the circuit I was concerned that they might start with a large surface area part and the little PSU would try to deliver far more amps than it is rated for.
I did use one for ages until the inevitable happened - I dribbled electrolyte onto it when it was still live and - PHUT.

That will work - up to a point.

You have too small an anode (angle iron) area for the area of the cathode (hub). Also only a small area of the cathode (hub) can 'see' the anode (angle iron) so only a small area of the hub will be very actively derusted.

Also it is MUCH better to completely immerse the part - the bit sticking out won't be derusted!

You need to surround the cathode (hub) with anode(s). I cut scrap sheet to fully line the container or lots of scrap rebar like a picket fence.

I have a second container that nests nicely inside the main one with about 1cm clearance all around. Drill a zillion holes in the sides of the inner container so the electrolyte can 'flow' through. Anode from sheet or rebar picket fence sits in the 1cm gap. That way the there is no risk of accidently shorting out the cathode and anode, and the parts are surrounded by anode.

Enjoy - but take care!

 

[rtcosic]

How does electrolytic cleaning affect the shiny plated finish of a brake caliper piston.

If the plating is in good condition - IT DOES NOT TOUCH IT.

That particular example was true scrap - I couldn't extract the piston.

I have recently just done two full sets of four calipers/pistons/carriers from a Rover 800 for number three son. I think he took photographs along the way. When he gets home from his work experience tonight I'll try to post them, just to re-assure you.

By the way it doesn't touch good cadmium plating either, or well adhered paint.

 

[rtcosic]

How does electrolytic cleaning affect the shiny plated finish of a brake caliper piston.

Have a look at page 3 of this posting to be getting on with. The brakes work fine!

http://www.rover800.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2549&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

Calipers, disks, brackets, nuts, bolts, pulleys, covers and every steel part you see (and a lot more!) has been electrolytically cleaned over the last few weeks.