Evaporust - first time user / review

[Ross365]

That MDS shows that there is phosphate in some form in Evaporust and I wasn't expecting that. Presumably it means that after treatment with Evaporust you have metal phosphate compounds on the surface of what you are working on and you may not want that. Is the paint you are going to use intened for use on a phosphated surface . On the other hand, citric acid does not leave anything on the surface after use.

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

That MDS shows that there is phosphate in some form in Evaporust and I wasn't expecting that. Presumably it means that after treatment with Evaporust you have metal phosphate compounds on the surface of what you are working on and you may not want that. Is the paint you are going to use intened for use on a phosphated surface . On the other hand, citric acid does not leave anything on the surface after use.

The chemical reaction that occurs when we add (NH4)3PO4 to H2O is a simple dissolution or dissociation reaction. In this reaction, (NH4)3PO4, which is a solid compound, dissolves in water to form ions.

The equation for this reaction can be written as:

(NH4)3PO4 + H2O -> NH4+ + NH4+ + NH4+ + PO4^3- + H2O

In this equation, (NH4)3PO4 is the solid compound and H2O is water. When (NH4)3PO4 is added to water, it dissociates into individual ions. Each (NH4)3PO4 molecule breaks apart to form three NH4+ ions (ammonium ions) and one PO4^3- ion (phosphate ion). Additionally, the water molecule remains intact.

Overall, the reaction involves the dissolution of (NH4)3PO4 in water, resulting in the formation of ammonium ions (NH4+) and phosphate ions (PO4^3-).



This is an oxidation-reduction (redox) reaction:

 

[Ross365]

The chemical reaction that occurs when we add (NH4)3PO4 to H2O is a simple dissolution or dissociation reaction. In this reaction, (NH4)3PO4, which is a solid compound, dissolves in water to form ions.

The equation for this reaction can be written as:

(NH4)3PO4 + H2O -> NH4+ + NH4+ + NH4+ + PO4^3- + H2O

In this equation, (NH4)3PO4 is the solid compound and H2O is water. When (NH4)3PO4 is added to water, it dissociates into individual ions. Each (NH4)3PO4 molecule breaks apart to form three NH4+ ions (ammonium ions) and one PO4^3- ion (phosphate ion). Additionally, the water molecule remains intact.

Overall, the reaction involves the dissolution of (NH4)3PO4 in water, resulting in the formation of ammonium ions (NH4+) and phosphate ions (PO4^3-).



This is an oxidation-reduction (redox) reaction:

View attachment 425083 View attachment 425084 View attachment 425085

And what happens to the phosphate ions? In the water, the phosphate ions are effectively forming phosphoric acid. I would expect that they would react with the surface of the steel to form an insoluble layer of metal phosphate.

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

And what happens to the phosphate ions? In the water, the phosphate ions are effectively forming phosphoric acid. I would expect that they would react with the surface of the steel to form an insoluble layer of metal phosphate.

There is also a second component, the sodium petroleum salt of sulfonic acid (a strong acid, like sulfuric acid) + its dissociation. I noticed the formation of free iron ions recovered from rust; it is easier to react with them than with a monolithic iron alloy. Interesting reactions occur in this compote, but the school chemistry course ended too long ago.

PS - The evaporust solution depletes over time. I'm not going to buy it as an experiment, but it may be possible to freshen it up by adding Diammonium phosphate or phosphoric acid.

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

So, sodium petroleum sulfonate (as a surfactant), as I understand it, forms micelles and displaces water from the metal, competing with proton exchange, cations and anions.

The question is what reacts with what in a chemical reaction, and with what micelles are formed, with iron ions, with iron phosphorus salts. Further, sodium petroleum sulfonate, as I understand it, comes in different origins (artificial and natural from petroleum products), and different molecular weights. It’s still a big question whether liquid (brown oily sodium petroleum sulfonate) is used in the evaporust formula, or whether pure sodium sulfonate (powder) is mixed in there.

PS - The CAS number corresponds to the liquid, but a mixture of powder and liquid may mask the full formulation. Well, this is from the realm of conspiracy theory (assumption), I’m not sure that such a practice exists anywhere in developed countries and harsh packs of wolf-lawyers.

 

[Ross365]

It appears to be a more complex product than many of us may have thought; I've not used it myself but I'm aware that others are consistently reporting that it works very well in terms of rust removal.

As for the issue of phosphate surface layers, I do think this is a significant question. The best illustration might be if someone was going to use one of the zinc loaded primers; good electrical conductivity between the zinc particles in the paint and the substrate metal is essential to get the best out of these paints. I suspect the same may be true for zinc phosphate primers.

I have used phosphating agents in the past, (I had good results when using simple phosphoric acid and enamel paints) but haven't used them for ~20 years. I have had some poor outcomes with some commercial phosphating agents

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

It appears to be a more complex product than many of us may have thought; I've not used it myself but I'm aware that others are consistently reporting that it works very well in terms of rust removal.

As for the issue of phosphate surface layers, I do think this is a significant question. The best illustration might be if someone was going to use one of the zinc loaded primers; good electrical conductivity between the zinc particles in the paint and the substrate metal is essential to get the best out of these paints. I suspect the same may be true for zinc phosphate primers.

I have used phosphating agents in the past, (I had good results when using simple phosphoric acid and enamel paints) but haven't used them for ~20 years. I have had some poor outcomes with some commercial phosphating agents

An example from my practice: almost a month ago, I pickled an angle profile made of low-carbon, hot-rolled steel in a solution of citric acid + EDTA + methenamine. It’s been a lot of rain and high humidity, but the steel doesn’t want to rust and in some places it’s still white. And I need to get a layer of uniform rust for tannin treatment. Wet rags didn't fix the situation. What was it? no phosphates or zinc. I was going to build a box for boiling water + a fan to create a hot and humid atmosphere. The rapid rust process will be useful to me, including for “rusty bluing”, but I will deal with it later.

 

[fizzy]

Does anyone know the ph of evaporust?

 

[jack-daniels]

Edd China explains how it works here and uses about a million quids worth to treat an old Range Rover chassis.

 

[Farside]

 

[beeRS]

Edd China explains how it works here and uses about a million quids worth to treat an old Range Rover chassis.

Ed spends a lot of time explaining the virtues of Evaporust. Almost seems like a paid advertisement.

 

[daedalusminos]

Edd China explains how it works here and uses about a million quids worth to treat an old Range Rover chassis.

Not quite a million, closer to £11K if bought in 5l containers - I bet that would buy a few fully galvanised chassis.

 

[beeRS]

What's even more embarrassing about this is as i was in the shed today with talk TV on in the background and they were discussing the ruined trade for this coming summer at Blackpool with the "fire" . And people call me a tin hat wearer when i mention fake news, you could not make it up

Not quite a million, closer to £11K if bought in 5l containers - I bet that would buy a few fully galvanised chassis.

So, begs the question, why would Ed do this unless this was sponsored by Evaporust?

 

[daedalusminos]

So, begs the question, why would Ed do this unless this was sponsored by Evaporust?

The video openly advises it contains paid promotion and Ed even admits it costs 6x the price of a galv chassis in the comments...

 

[Farside]

The video openly advises it contains paid promotion and Ed even admits it costs 6x the price of a galv chassis in the comments...
View attachment 431091

Apart from Evaporust supplying the stuff for free in this instance, if anyone were doing it for real, they'd be buying it by the IBC, at considerable saving. Makes his 'retail' estimate a load of clickbait nonsense.

 

[Popcorn]

In my experience Evaorust, DOESN'T work as well or as quickly as food grade citric acid.

 

[JOEPRO]

In my experience Evaorust, DOESN'T work as well or as quickly as food grade citric acid.

Do you warm the Citric Acid and keep it warm? Or just ambient temp water?

 

[Popcorn]

Just ambient temp also found it'll take galvanised coating of sheet steel as well.

 

[marlinspike]

If I've got stuff in a bowl of citric acid I add boiling water now and again. I also get rid of the rust debris. I got a load of very cheap citric acid powder from a fishing store on ebay so always worth checking those as well as the food/bath bomb suppliers. Used in bait apparently. I do think Bilt Hamber Deox C is a bit better but not worth the huge price uplift over the food grade stuff you can find quite cheaply.

 

[Popcorn]

Got mine from here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01BDLOGW2/ref=pe_27063361_485629781_pd_te_o_rp_im?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01BDLOGW2&pd_rd_r=MVP084D0GJ4M54S1E53V&pd_rd_w=EARwy&pd_rd_wg=aEDum&pf_rd_p=e93f0038-fb45-4b56-9ac7-bcb227770a56

Only used about 10 scoops so far, saved the mixture as it still works after half a dozen uses.