Fixing a fence post

[DAPPH]

It's even better to use 4 inch square recycled plastic set in concrete as posts . Even better if they are for an H section post for dropping in fence panels . The 3 mtr ones I dropped in 33 yrs ago are still there .


At this property the 4 inch oak fence wire posts were all rotted away at the dew point ( an inch or two below the soil and about nine inches above it) all posts were set in concrete the wood in the concrete was as new they were however well soaked in old creosote from when the bungalow was built thirty years ago . I spent ages chopping out the old concrete and wood then dug a new hole half way betwennth next post and bespoke made a new fence panel to drop in th new concrete H section post I was using for fence posts . There after a new hole was dug in clean soil at a full panel length missing all the rotten stumps . Had to use the other half of the first panel to make the end one and also chop out the old concreted in post . . I did 22 panels like that

This is what the post office aka BT did/ do to telegraph poles . Soak a post for six weekes (aka " pickling the timbers or post or pole ) in a tall tub so the creosote preservative is going to reach up the post nine inches above the finished soil level or lay them flat in a tank of creosote , re treat once every seven years by digging out 4 inches of soil/back fill and treat from there to 9 inches up the post/pole then the posts should last a hundred years or more . If you put a lead capping on the top of the post that's cut at an angle to run off rain the top end of th post wont rot either .
When I did my training course with BT in Harrogate in 1988 we found loads of poles 96 years old IIRC and as good as the day they were planted .

The main reason previously treated with modern copper salt based preservatives etc. is as the preservative degrades after a few years , the posts rot at ground level. This is due to the dew point...………. from an inch or so below the ground to about nine inches above the ground keeping the wood wet and encouraging rot & insect attack .

 

[brightspark]

It's even better to use 4 inch square recycled plastic set in concrete as posts . Even better if they are for an H section post for dropping in fence panels . The 3 mtr ones I dropped in 33 yrs ago are still there .


At this property the 4 inch oak fence wire posts were all rotted away at the dew point ( an inch or two below the soil and about nine inches above it) all posts were set in concrete the wood in the concrete was as new they were however well soaked in old creosote from when the bungalow was built thirty years ago . I spent ages chopping out the old concrete and wood then dug a new hole half way betwennth next post and bespoke made a new fence panel to drop in th new concrete H section post I was using for fence posts . There after a new hole was dug in clean soil at a full panel length missing all the rotten stumps . Had to use the other half of the first panel to make the end one and also chop out the old concreted in post . . I did 22 panels like that

This is what the post office aka BT did/ do to telegraph poles . Soak a post for six weekes (aka " pickling the timbers or post or pole ) in a tall tub so the creosote preservative is going to reach up the post nine inches above the finished soil level or lay them flat in a tank of creosote , re treat once every seven years by digging out 4 inches of soil/back fill and treat from there to 9 inches up the post/pole then the posts should last a hundred years or more . If you put a lead capping on the top of the post that's cut at an angle to run off rain the top end of th post wont rot either .
When I did my training course with BT in Harrogate in 1988 we found loads of poles 96 years old IIRC and as good as the day they were planted .

the gate posts on my house are 140 years old .there about a foot square and were probably dipped in creosote as house belonged to British rail . they have never been re coated and hardly any rot at the base. they take no prisoners and have been hit a fair few times by idiots backing in to them

 

[grim_d]

My experience is the opposite. The timber rots off at the top of the concrete as the moisture cannot drain away.
And then you have the joy of digging out said concrete.

The proper way to do it is to create a dome with the concrete to allow water to run off.

Personally I use either postsaver sleeves or concrete stabs and always sunk into concrete.

These days I also soak all cut ends in Sika wood preserver and paint all rails and slats before fixing...yes it takes me bloody ages to do fences.

I hate fencing.

 

[brightspark]

the rot occurs where the damp wood is in contact with oxygen at the base. the wood will last donkeys years underground in wet conditions as long as no oxygen gets to it .the mary rose is hundreds of years old and still in good nick

 

[Parm]

These things very much also depend on the soil conditions and drainage.

Where I live the soil is very heavy clay with rubbish drainage. I’ve been in the house 10 years and have redone all the fence posts twice. They just rot at where they go into the ground. Doesn’t matter if they are in concrete, soil or have NASA technology wood treatment or preservative. Everything just rots.

Like @Bob suggests concrete repair spurs have been installed and job done

 

[fizzy]

Thanks for all the replies.
2 reasons for now wanting to dig the post out. The neighbour there is a nightmare and the ground is full of bits of brick and god knows what a few inches down. Very hard compacted would need to hire a breaker to get through.
I suspect it is the only real option though!

 

[DAPPH]

the gate posts on my house are 140 years old .there about a foot square and were probably dipped in creosote as house belonged to British rail . they have never been re coated and hardly any rot at the base

Yep … Those post will have been pickled for six weeks or more at the pickling farm in good old carcinogenic tar based creosote . All wooden railway sleepers were treated the same , on oak the creosote reacts with the resin in the oak making a waterproof gel coat that sets as a solid coating as well as soaking in to the wood fibres two inches or more . Whilst it was railway property it will have been re treated everytime the property & gate was repainted by the railway company as part of their building upkeep cycle programme . Till about 1960 they also used to spray whale oil once every seven years on the outside walls to water proof them as well for the bricks were often fletton yellows fairly resistant to moisture ingress but the lime mortar acted like a sponge .

 

[DAPPH]

Parm,
Pressure treated timber is one of the worst for rotting after five or six years in wet soil , for the fibres are opened up when the vacuum is applied to the pickling chamber to take the moisture out the wood and then whilst the preservative comes in when the wood is at certain dry level it then absorbs the preservative but the fibres are still left open .

Go the pickling route with creosote solve it . Remember Telecom and the power companies both have millions of wooden pine poles in wet , cold , rubbish soil . In certain soils there will also be an alloy strip some 600mm wide wrapped round and nailed on with special nail at the base of the pole especially if it a power pole & is in a farmers field .

IIRC Around 1989 BT had to replace over a million poles they had planted in the ground all over the UK that came from Italy /Sicily as part of the EU competitive tendering crap as they had not been pickled long enough & developed internal rot . Not very nice if you climb a pole and it breaks off with you attached to it . They had specialist teams using a special boring tool to open up the fibres of a pole and check that there was no rot in all those poles .

 

[grim_d]

These things very much also depend on the soil conditions and drainage.

Where I live the soil is very heavy clay with rubbish drainage. I’ve been in the house 10 years and have redone all the fence posts twice. They just rot at where they go into the ground. Doesn’t matter if they are in concrete, soil or have NASA technology wood treatment or preservative. Everything just rots.

Like @Bob suggests concrete repair spurs have been installed and job done

Try concrete posts next time, they won't rot.

Thanks for all the replies.
2 reasons for now wanting to dig the post out. The neighbour there is a nightmare and the ground is full of bits of brick and god knows what a few inches down. Very hard compacted would need to hire a breaker to get through.
I suspect it is the only real option though!

Nothing a decent pinch bar and trenching spade can't handle.

An SDS will break up concrete no problem.

 

[Parm]

Parm,
Pressure treated timber is one of the worst for rotting after five or six years in wet soil , for the fibres are opened up when the vacuum is applied to the pickling chamber to take the moisture out the wood and then whilst the preservative comes in when the wood is at certain dry level it then absorbs the preservative but the fibres are still left open .

Go the pickling route with creosote solve it . Remember Telecom and the power companies both have millions of wooden pine poles in wet , cold , rubbish soil . In certain soils there will also be an alloy strip some 600mm wide wrapped round and nailed on with special nail at the base of the pole especially if it a power pole & is in a farmers field .

IIRC Around 1989 BT had to replace over a million poles they had planted in the ground all over the UK that came from Italy /Sicily as part of the EU competitive tendering Jabberwocky as they had not been pickled long enough & developed internal rot . Not very nice if you climb a pole and it breaks off with you attached to it . They had specialist teams using a special boring tool to open up the fibres of a pole and check that there was no rot in all those poles .

Fortunately I won’t have to do anything again now as all posts have an extra spur

I don’t know anything about pickling, like a lot of others I always though pressure treated was the way forward

What you describe does explain why the new pressure treated posts turned to mush so quickly

And yes, I’ve always wondered how the telegraph poles survived much longer than my poxy fence posts

I don’t need to do any fence maintenance, hopefully for a long time but I will look into pickling, just out of sheer interest

 

[brightspark]

Parm,
Pressure treated timber is one of the worst for rotting after five or six years in wet soil , for the fibres are opened up when the vacuum is applied to the pickling chamber to take the moisture out the wood and then whilst the preservative comes in when the wood is at certain dry level it then absorbs the preservative but the fibres are still left open .

Go the pickling route with creosote solve it . Remember Telecom and the power companies both have millions of wooden pine poles in wet , cold , rubbish soil . In certain soils there will also be an alloy strip some 600mm wide wrapped round and nailed on with special nail at the base of the pole especially if it a power pole & is in a farmers field .

IIRC Around 1989 BT had to replace over a million poles they had planted in the ground all over the UK that came from Italy /Sicily as part of the EU competitive tendering Jabberwocky as they had not been pickled long enough & developed internal rot . Not very nice if you climb a pole and it breaks off with you attached to it . They had specialist teams using a special boring tool to open up the fibres of a pole and check that there was no rot in all those poles .

another test they did was go tap the bottom of the pole with a hammer .if it was hollow up the middle you could hear it if it was solid just a thud I once climbed a pole with a ladder against it on an overhead line on a farm and it snapped I jumped off half way down as it fell

 

[Yamhon]

another test they did was go tap the bottom of the pole with a hammer .if it was hollow up the middle you could hear it if it was solid just a thud I once climbed a pole with a ladder against it on an overhead line on a farm and it snapped I jumped off half way down as it fell

Well that's one way to cure constipation.

 

[brightspark]

Well that's one way to cure constipation.

just jumped clear and rolled over like a parachute jump and was ok

 

[Parm]

just jumped clear and rolled over like a parachute jump and was ok

We’re you wearing your underpants on the outside?

 

[DAPPH]

another test they did was go tap the bottom of the pole with a hammer .if it was hollow up the middle you could hear it if it was solid just a thud I once climbed a pole with a ladder against it on an overhead line on a farm and it snapped I jumped off half way down as it fell

The pole test with a hammer was not infallible .
One of the lads says he did his pole test , tied the ladder on top & bottom , climbed up the stick , belted on and the pole snapped about 12 feet up , he was badly hurt . Seems a farmer had used a hedge disc cutter to cut the hawthorn hedge years ago , before it was ripped out and had sliced half way through the pole on the blind side .

 

[fizzy]

Why do I now think of Jonesy and Pike trying to get a bomb down caught in the phone wires? It ended in the porridge

 

[fizzy]

Talking of which Ronan seems a bit quiet or have I just been missing his posts?