flat welds

[flange jockey]

snowy, puddles thanks for your interest,you both mention the fact that the 6010 is a deep digging rod good for roots,recently i came across a butt ,i was ready to weld with 10 root,when the two pipes were lined up there was a difference in the I/D,in this case you must open up the gap to 3.25,this isn,t the main problem for me,the inside root edge is blind so you need more control over the pool,the pics may explain better,it was welded 5g 2.5 6013f/j

 

[Puddles]

flange looks like you ran that down hill? If so do you have trouble keeping the slag from getting in front of the puddle? Do you run your 6013 on AC, DC+, or DC-?

 

[flange jockey]

no puddles its upside down in those pics,i have never tried to put a root in downhand,though i think the pipeliners can 6010 or similar.i also have a habit of electrode neg.its just a preference through using both.heres the finished butt,bottomf/j

 

[Puddles]

Here is my 2-cents/opinion.

Just to clarify, down hand = flat welding. Down hill = vertically welding, direction of travel from top to bottom.
First off there always seems to be an exception to every rule, but on the whole down hill welding is used in cross-country pipeline welding. Some refer to it as “outside the fence”. Inside the fence; refineries, food processing, power plants, shipyards, so on, and on. Is up hill welding of pipe. Now that’s not to say in some places you’re not allowed to run the root, and hot pass down hill, and the fill up hill, but that is not a given, up hill root passes are very common! I really don’t know the percentage of pipe welds made with 7018 compared to 6010, but again on the whole you’ll see 6010 root, and hot pass, then it will usually be specified to either fill with 7018 or 6010. Again there always seems to be exceptions to every rule!

What little 6013 I’ve run, I like DC straight polarity best myself.

 

[flange jockey]

thanks puddles,inside the fence is a new one,says it all really.i suppose the natural progression from flat to root is about right,it is the first and i suppose most important bead on pipe.but to mention first ,i have found that there seem to be 2 distinct types of 6013 there is the fast freeze type ie vodex,these burn like 6010 rods,but without the punch,great for root.the second type is more fluid,this makes them harder to root with but they give a nice finish.fox sum is this type heres a few pics.vodex fox sum

 

[Puddles]

flange I just love the pictures you post of your pipe welds!

The one place I worked in the late 1970’s where we tested on either 6 or 8-inch pipe, (can’t remember) We were allowed to prep, (bevel, place land, and gap) the pipe, and make 4-tacks, feather both ends of each tack, and place the pipe in the rack at the 6-G position. Then we had to locate the on site welding inspector for approval. If he approved the test pipe, we were allowed to make the root pass, but no grinding until his inspection of the root pass. The first thing he did was look inside. He looked for a uniform bead all the way around, if not he would bust you out / fail you! If he approved the uniformity of the root pass, then he would slide a welding rod inside the pipe up to the root bead and checked for proper height, (penetration) of the bead. If the bead was thicker / higher than half the diameter of the welding rod he busted you out / failed you! If you got this far you were allowed to continue, but he could stop you at anytime to check your progress. At anytime if he felt you were not complying too code he could bust you out / fail you!

 

[flange jockey]

and its never easy puddles,that guy hanging on your shoulder is no fun at all .id like to drop you a PM later if you don,t mind.lads gap 2.5 rod 2.5 land about 2mm.i would normally start with 3 tacks,the fourth usually starts the butt,most roots i can show are rolled.start 75 amps,strike your arc and move into the root opening slowly,there will be metal blowing to the front of the arc,some of this will bridge the gap as you hit it.move up the gap L R breaking the edge and keeping the keyhole open.as you change a rod grind the end of the bead till a blue color shows,do the same at the closer,all that crap blowing from the arc,can now come away.f/j

 

[Puddles]

Hi flange, glad to see you reply, I was beginning to think I made you mad.

I’m what you would call a frustrated pipe welder, (wanna be). Meaning here in the states pipe welding is pretty much locked up by the unions. The Pipe liner’s & pipe fitter’s unions are some of the most powerful unions in the USA. Almost have to be born in either one, or have a close relative in the union before you can even think about joining! I know two brothers that are sprinkler fitters, (fire protection) it took both of them 4-years to get in the union, and at the time their uncle was the business agent, (union boss) and their dad was a 20-year member!
It’s been a life long dream of mine to be a pipe welder, but just never had the opportunity to do it for a living. But I have all the respect in the world for anybody who can weld pipe at your level. Like I tell everybody, I can weld pipe, but I’m no pipe welder!

Oh, by the way great pictures, keep’em coming!

 

[scarecrow]

I second that I thought I was okay to weld until I saw your pics flange jockey keep them coming interesting stuff

 

[flange jockey]

thanks lads, puddles no wonder your frustrated,seems unfair to keep a man away from a job he is capable of doing.i sometimes think pipe welders add to this snobbery.nothing i do is really that critical,its bare bum stuff,i tried a 7018 root a couple of weeks ago to try them,i was surprised at how well they ran. f/j

 

[Puddles]

That is a very good looking root pass, impressive!

I had one chance to get into the pipe fitter’s union about 30-years ago. But only as an apprentice / helper, after already completing one apprenticeship and being a journeyman for 4-years, and with a young family, house payments, and all, I just couldn’t take the cut in pay!

Those pictures of the root bead being welded are sure deceiving, that gap looks wider than 1/8, (2.5mm). Been years since I welded any open root pipe, but seems as I liked about 3/32-inch, (2.3825mm) gap with a heavy 1/16-inch, (1.5875mm) land, when welding with a 1/8-inch, (2.5mm) 6010 welding rod.

All this talk about pipe welding is starting to motivate me to try my hand at it again! I just bought some scrap 8-inch, (203.2mm) with a 1/4-inch, (6.35mm) wall for an up coming project, if I have any left over I just might give it ago!

 

[flange jockey]

one of us is wrong puddles,i thought 2.5 was 3/32 1/8 3.25, anyhow thats what ive been using.this is 6013, 2.5 3 inch butt and the finished reducer .fire her up puddles. f/j

 

[flange jockey]

more and more customers ask for tig root,i work with lads who are a lot more accomplished with this method than myself,i really don,t enjoy it as much,but need to be able to handle it.heres a 6 and 3 inch butt,ill post a few root gaps next time if you don,t mind. f/j

 

[Puddles]

ill post a few root gaps next time if you don,t mind.

Yes please do!

I really shouldn’t tell you this at all, but I figured out how much pipe I need for my up coming project. Cut and beveled two leftover pieces ready to weld. Grabbed a couple pieces of flatbar to test my machine settings, beveled them to 37.5° with a 3/32-land, and 3/32-inch gap. I was just floored at how much trouble I’m having with open root vertical up hill. Now I even have more respect for your abilities!
Right now I’m on a quest to get back in the swing of things! Hopefully your pictures will keep me motivated! I got to thinking yesterday when I was getting so frustrated, (here comes the excuses) it has been 28 or 29-years since I welded open root 3-G, but it looks more like 300-years.
Don’t even ask for pictures, to embarrassed!

 

[flange jockey]

puddles im glad your motivated by these pics but id rather help you.i do this in some form or another every day, and still make growlers.give it time,and post some pics if i cant help, there are lads here who might.as a pipe fitter i don,t have much technical knowledge on welding.the first pic is light pipe so 3.25 gap and i personally use a land,a fox wedge helps a lot to keep the gap from closing.the second pipe is heavier so a 4mm gap,both are 2.5 filler, f/j

 

[petedut]

I have recently done a bit of butt welding using 3.5mm pipe, I had the arc welder turned up to about 120-125amps but I didnt seem to get good penertration like on these pics, would you guys recommend that I grind them down and go over them again?

 

[Puddles]

give it time,and post some pics if i cant help

Maybe in a few days, or a week or so!

I had a little better luck today; I used a couple number 33, ( 0.113) drill bits for the gap with almost the same for land. I could just stick the 1/8-inch 6010 rod in the gap and move it side to side, soon as I got in trouble I would start to whip just a touch.
Zeroing in on the prep that seems to work for me, now just to get consistent! When my trade switched form SMAW to wire feeds to save labor, I really lost the knack for stick welding!

 

[Drains]

Puddles, FJ, what is whipping?

Si

ps, this continues to be a v. interesting thread.

Edit - Petedut, have you been prepping, leaving root gap/land, as you can see in FJ's pics?

 

[petedut]

Edit - Petedut, have you been prepping, leaving root gap/land, as you can see in FJ's pics?

No, just used 2.7mm rods and filled the 'v' up with them There was no real gap inbetween the pipes either but they where all beveled.

 

[Welderpaul]

Puddles, FJ, what is whipping?

Si

ps, this continues to be a v. interesting thread.

Edit - Petedut, have you been prepping, leaving root gap/land, as you can see in FJ's pics?

Yer keep flicking the end of the rod upwards or backwards by a slight movement of the wrist to stop the slag beating the rate at which the bead is laid. Stops slag inclusion.
I'll let someone else give you the propper terminology.