- Thread starter Purple Welder
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I don't think there's many places about that can bend Ti tubing cleanly/sucessfully, at least at the sort of wall factors (OD/wall) needed for exhaust stuff? It's certainly not the case that you can chuck it in any old mandrel bender and start knocking out perfect bends reliably which'd compound the price... someone has to pay for any/all the scrapped bends. Then there's stuff like tooling, find somewhere that can bend it only to discover you'd need to pay for new tooling for example as they don't work with the dia & wall thickness of Ti you need every day and/or they don't have tooling for the CLR you need etc. I wouldn't be suprised if tooling life is shorter further increasing costs too?
Assuming that bit of art was fabbed from grade 2 it's yield strength is higher than say 304L and fairly close to its UTS (which is lower than 304L iirc) resulting in more springback than with stainless which is common to all flavours of Ti. Might be talking nonsense but off the top of my head i expect the 'proper' exhaust alloys like Timet XT or Kobe Ti-1.2ASN are fairly similar to the commercially flavours like grade 2 from a formability POV?
Assuming that bit of art was fabbed from grade 2 it's yield strength is higher than say 304L and fairly close to its UTS (which is lower than 304L iirc) resulting in more springback than with stainless which is common to all flavours of Ti. Might be talking nonsense but off the top of my head i expect the 'proper' exhaust alloys like Timet XT or Kobe Ti-1.2ASN are fairly similar to the commercially flavours like grade 2 from a formability POV?
Brad93
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Titanium bends over a certain angle cannot be produced without cracking, hence the pie cuts to produce complex bends. There are firms who do mandrel bent Ti tubes in the US but only up to 120 degrees, id hate to know the cost.
This is a guy called Chris at Unobtainium Welding in Alberta, Canada.
This is a guy called Chris at Unobtainium Welding in Alberta, Canada.
Fred Moore
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Back in 2010 I did some welding for Raptor Titanium local to me welding up their 6AL-4V grade foot pegs for moto cross and trials bikes.
It was the first time I had ever welded titanium but I didn't think it was hard.
If anything it seemed easier than a lot and my description was it was like welding Liquid Chrome.
When I was a lot younger I was given some bits of fan blades and was told I could weld it in a shoe box kind of thing.
Not exactly understanding this concept I tried to weld it.
It looked superb but as I tried to bend it to see how rigid it felt it snapped like a Rich Tea Biscuit lol.
Someone did mention that its usually done in a enclosed Argon filled tank so I never bothered again till 2010 when I helped Raptor.
The main man, an ex Rolls worker knew all about it and a hell of a lot more. Lots of respect for him I have.
Anyhow the following pics show how we did them.
These stainless boxes were made so they could be water cooled.
There are two rectangular holes in the top for the fixtures and Argon was fed from the rear.
The plates on top are some sliding trap doors so to keep the opening to a minimum for the tig torch to go in and not loose too much gas but being heavier than air I'll guess it just flowed out and down to the floor.
The welder I used there was a Kemppi and though it was excellent it would loose all its settings from time to time and I'd find myself welding in normal DC.
These are the footpeg grips before they were tacked to their base plate shoe in a fixture and were heated up on the rings of an electric oven prior to being formed into this shape.
We would tack these together using a normal torch setup with 5 seconds minimum after gas flow and then they would go in another fixture in the stainless argon tank for welding.
No rod was added but we found 90 Amps was a good setting for Pulsing the two parts together.
It was tricky to keep a good movement through the tank trap door so they looked good.
The one on the right is showing the underside while the left is the bit you would stand on on a bike. Obvious to most I'm sure.
A Robot was tried before I worked there but I'm told if it missed joining just once it made a bloody mess with the rest of it. I did learn recently that they were trying a robot again
but I don't know the outcome of that.
I thought it was better hand done anyway.
This is the sliding trap door arrangement and my tig torch went in through the opening to weld them.
You can just make out a fixture in the bottom. Some pictures are a bit poor from my phone back then.
This is showing a fixture in the within the tank and the trap door slid out the way.
This picture shows one side welded but the bit inbetween the Allen bolts is still to be done.
Sadly the pics I have of complete finished pegs are not fit for posting as they were so blurred but I may have something when I search for them.
I will say it was a pleasure to weld especially after years of black crap mild steel.
One day I washed out the stainless tank and though I blew it out with an airline the pegs had a unique welded colour scheme
completely different to the norm for a few pairs. Some people there loved them for it but it only happened once.
All parts were 4mm thick and Laser cut from a sheet to maximum parts per sheet leaving nothing more than a thin wire waste.
Though even the scrap value of the sheet after fetched good money.
There are or wasn't many places that could Laser cut it back then and the bill was shocking enough never mind buying the sheet.
Argon used was from Air products in the form of those half sized 300 bar bottles they do with a built on regulator on top and a on/off lever.
All the parts were de burred in a vibrating tub with those ceramic cone shaped stones. Though when that broke down we used a cement mixer for a while which did the job.
All Pegs had the company name Laser etched on the side prior to shipping.
None ever broke in use apart from those that launched their bikes off jumps and entangled with another bike or went off the track and hit a rock.
The square bits of bar in the tank is to prop the fixture at a usable angle.
I hope The poster of this thread doesn't mind me putting this here.
Their is nothing else I can say that hasn't been said really.
Unless some company has a unique way of manufacturing bent Titanium tube you will only find straight lengths.
Fred.
It was the first time I had ever welded titanium but I didn't think it was hard.
If anything it seemed easier than a lot and my description was it was like welding Liquid Chrome.
When I was a lot younger I was given some bits of fan blades and was told I could weld it in a shoe box kind of thing.
Not exactly understanding this concept I tried to weld it.
It looked superb but as I tried to bend it to see how rigid it felt it snapped like a Rich Tea Biscuit lol.
Someone did mention that its usually done in a enclosed Argon filled tank so I never bothered again till 2010 when I helped Raptor.
The main man, an ex Rolls worker knew all about it and a hell of a lot more. Lots of respect for him I have.
Anyhow the following pics show how we did them.
These stainless boxes were made so they could be water cooled.
There are two rectangular holes in the top for the fixtures and Argon was fed from the rear.
The plates on top are some sliding trap doors so to keep the opening to a minimum for the tig torch to go in and not loose too much gas but being heavier than air I'll guess it just flowed out and down to the floor.
The welder I used there was a Kemppi and though it was excellent it would loose all its settings from time to time and I'd find myself welding in normal DC.
These are the footpeg grips before they were tacked to their base plate shoe in a fixture and were heated up on the rings of an electric oven prior to being formed into this shape.
We would tack these together using a normal torch setup with 5 seconds minimum after gas flow and then they would go in another fixture in the stainless argon tank for welding.
No rod was added but we found 90 Amps was a good setting for Pulsing the two parts together.
It was tricky to keep a good movement through the tank trap door so they looked good.
The one on the right is showing the underside while the left is the bit you would stand on on a bike. Obvious to most I'm sure.
A Robot was tried before I worked there but I'm told if it missed joining just once it made a bloody mess with the rest of it. I did learn recently that they were trying a robot again
but I don't know the outcome of that.
I thought it was better hand done anyway.
This is the sliding trap door arrangement and my tig torch went in through the opening to weld them.
You can just make out a fixture in the bottom. Some pictures are a bit poor from my phone back then.
This is showing a fixture in the within the tank and the trap door slid out the way.
This picture shows one side welded but the bit inbetween the Allen bolts is still to be done.
Sadly the pics I have of complete finished pegs are not fit for posting as they were so blurred but I may have something when I search for them.
I will say it was a pleasure to weld especially after years of black crap mild steel.
One day I washed out the stainless tank and though I blew it out with an airline the pegs had a unique welded colour scheme
completely different to the norm for a few pairs. Some people there loved them for it but it only happened once.
All parts were 4mm thick and Laser cut from a sheet to maximum parts per sheet leaving nothing more than a thin wire waste.
Though even the scrap value of the sheet after fetched good money.
There are or wasn't many places that could Laser cut it back then and the bill was shocking enough never mind buying the sheet.
Argon used was from Air products in the form of those half sized 300 bar bottles they do with a built on regulator on top and a on/off lever.
All the parts were de burred in a vibrating tub with those ceramic cone shaped stones. Though when that broke down we used a cement mixer for a while which did the job.
All Pegs had the company name Laser etched on the side prior to shipping.
None ever broke in use apart from those that launched their bikes off jumps and entangled with another bike or went off the track and hit a rock.
The square bits of bar in the tank is to prop the fixture at a usable angle.
I hope The poster of this thread doesn't mind me putting this here.
Their is nothing else I can say that hasn't been said really.
Unless some company has a unique way of manufacturing bent Titanium tube you will only find straight lengths.
Fred.
nice job..
Fred Moore
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Nice! Its been a while since I've seen some on. Though the design has changed a little.
Is the wear pad an optional extra or something you found elsewhere.
I shall have to go see Jack the boss again as its been a while and he's a top bloke.
Fred.
Is the wear pad an optional extra or something you found elsewhere.
I shall have to go see Jack the boss again as its been a while and he's a top bloke.
Fred.
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What sumo you got?
Shox Dr
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Fred Moore
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On a dog walk a few days ago I called into to see the main man Jack at Raptor Titanium.
He said they hardly sell pegs for trials bikes any more but still supply some wholesalers.
The tops are now pulsed in by Robot. Though it misses here and there so they do touch up manually.
Trouble is you can tell. The robot when it does it right is stunning but also is obvious as though we may like to think we have a steady hand
the robot is faultless in its pulsed travel.
He's aiming at full robot production eventually.
He also said that they are now copied in China but are made from commercial grade so soft and soon sag with wear.
They'll be a lot cheaper though and probably sell well even if they don't last long.
Being out of work and knowing half his staff left I was hoping he needed assistance but he said we hardly weld much manually now. ****! I enjoyed welding them too even if it was somewhat monotonous.
After a good chat and a look round he gave me a Bottle opener and keyring they did from a load of scrap Titanium.
Fred.
He said they hardly sell pegs for trials bikes any more but still supply some wholesalers.
The tops are now pulsed in by Robot. Though it misses here and there so they do touch up manually.
Trouble is you can tell. The robot when it does it right is stunning but also is obvious as though we may like to think we have a steady hand
the robot is faultless in its pulsed travel.
He's aiming at full robot production eventually.
He also said that they are now copied in China but are made from commercial grade so soft and soon sag with wear.
They'll be a lot cheaper though and probably sell well even if they don't last long.
Being out of work and knowing half his staff left I was hoping he needed assistance but he said we hardly weld much manually now. ****! I enjoyed welding them too even if it was somewhat monotonous.
After a good chat and a look round he gave me a Bottle opener and keyring they did from a load of scrap Titanium.
Fred.
