Here we go. Atlas 10F lathe

[OldunLenny]

I think it looks like a well loved lathe with sensible modifications to make it all the more usable, like updating a classic car, if it works for you do it for you and forget what the rivet counters think.
Driven not hidden.

Keith, 'well loved' that's an interesting observation. I suppose it's odd that we do attach emotion to 'things' be they cars, houses, or whatever. I guess that can be for many reasons, nostalgia, monetary value, pride, individuality, etc.
Even with that attachment (which in my case here is certainly a lot of nostalgia) it doesn't mean you have to be blind to the shortcomings of something. Hence my modifications in recognising some of those things and trying to address them. I can make those mods to suit me because this old lathe has no 'monetary' value to me. Something's monetary value is only relevant if you sell it, and I doubt I ever will, the exception being if there comes a time when I'm too old and infirm to use it any more, but even then, I would sooner give it to someone who I believed would look after and appreciate it then sell it to someone who wouldn't. If I don't get that opportunity before the final curtain, they will probably bury me with it!....... I've just had an amusing vision of the pall bearers staggering down the church path carrying a box containing me and an Atlas 10F amid mutterings like "Cor! This geezer must have given the Yorkie bars a pasting!" - I digress.

Ultimately, I think the true 'value' of something is in the time, effort, ingenuity etc. that we invest in it. This thread has evolved around the discussion of lathes generally, but I hope we haven't lost sight of the fact that it was started by julianthegypsy to follow the progress of bringing his Atlas back to life, which is what I hooked on to this thread to follow. I hope, having invested much of himself in such a resurrection, he will look on his old machine similarly fondly. A story which I very much hope will continue and I am eager to follow. If I can chip-in with the benefit of experience along the way, I hope that might be of use. I don't say that in any arrogant way. I would be the first to admit that during my trials and tribulations over so many years, I've probably committed every goof in the book. That might be of some use in not making the same mistakes twice.

 

[OldunLenny]

It is a beast. Will turn 24" in the gap. 48 " between centres.
It is the old roundhead model 1964. Very little wear only drawback 1000rpm top speed so not enough really for carbide tooling.

Ah! The older cast iron headed one! In other words, a 'proper' lathe! All those lovely rounded curves....I'd probably want to give a squeeze once in a while, but then I'm strange like that.

Carbide tooling. Hmmmm. I am completely out of my comfort zone with the bigger machines, but as I understand things, carbide tooling doesn't like shocks, and is best suited to high speed production work, but does that mean you can't use it?

I say that because I use mostly carbide tipped tooling even on my Atlas. I seldom run that above 5/600 rpm. Admittedly, my tooling is small in comparison (no jokes needed, I realise what I've just said), about 12mm square holders but I get on with them OK. Whether that is different for bigger machines where cooling and dynamics are different, I don't know. Perhaps someone with greater knowledge will comment.
I use the special tips for aluminium on non-ferrous metals generally and I can get a lovely finish. Not quite so much on steels, perhaps, using general purpose carbide tips, but still quite acceptable. Even before I treated myself to tipped tooling, I used brazed tipped carbide tools. I used to grind them similar to HSS but probably with a bit more top rake, but they were good. In fact, for years now, the only time I use HSS is if I need to grind a special for a groove, or profile.
They must have used carbide tipped tooling in 'the old days' because in one of the 'useful one day' boxes I inherited, there was a big old carbide tipped tool (pic). This I know, (from the length of time I've had it) must go back decades, presumably before 'modern' machines, CNC and all that.
Anyway, that might be one of those things to experiment with, should you ever feel inclined.

The biggest mystery of all, however, is why I have kept the big old lathe tool in the picture for several decades. I have never used it....I know I never will use it....but I still have it. Why do we do that??????

 

[Seadog]

I remember out instructor talking about carbide tooling (the few that there were around in the workshop) as a "Wimet tool."

Carbide has been around a lot longer than I'd imagined - https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Wickman_Wimet

 

[OldunLenny]

I remember out instructor talking about carbide tooling (the few that there were around in the workshop) as a "Wimet tool."

Carbide has been around a lot longer than I'd imagined - https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Wickman_Wimet

Jeepers! I see what you mean. Carbide tipped tools in 1928? That's astonishing. Still, I suppose it illustrates the point that they must have been using carbide tools on some pretty ancient (and presumably pretty slow) machines.

Unless someone in the know is now going to point us towards a 1928 CNC controlled high speed production lathe! After this , I almost wouldn't be surprised!

 

[fizzy]

1942 first cnc lathe. 1956 cva made the first cnc 3 axis milling machine.

 

[OldunLenny]

1942 first cnc lathe. 1956 cva made the first cnc 3 axis milling machine.

There you go!!!!!! I knew it!!!!!!

Which also proves you're never to old to learn something! Perhaps I'll give these a look-up sometime. Sounds fascinating. The 'controller' must have been the size of a house.

 

[Seadog]

The 'controller' must have been the size of a house.

Paper tape I would imagine, or a plug board. Would that count as CNC I wonder?

 

[OldunLenny]

Paper tape I would imagine, or a plug board. Would that count as CNC I wonder?

I had a quick look around because this looked interesting. Needless to say, it's a big and somewhat confused subject. First there were 'automatic lathes', which were deemed 'mechanically' automatic. That then moved to 'numerically controlled' (NC) lathes, which I suppose would encompass the type of thing you mention - tape, punch cards etc. until we finally get to 'computer numerical control', our modern CNC lathes, of course.
What drove my 'big as house' comment was the assumption these would be some sort of 'computer control' and I was reflecting upon the computer systems of old where you had whole floor of a building stacked full of huge boxes, the combined capabilities of which would probably be no more than a desk-top server of today.

It would be interesting to see some of this old suff, though. Perhaps there's some in the science museum, if I ever get there.

 

[fizzy]

Paper tape I would imagine, or a plug board. Would that count as CNC I wonder?

They were out long before that. The dates I quoted were for electronic machines.

 

[Seadog]

The first working electronic machine was developed around 1950. There were NC machines then, punch card, and tape controlled.

 

[Shox Dr]

I had a quick look around because this looked interesting. Needless to say, it's a big and somewhat confused subject. First there were 'automatic lathes', which were deemed 'mechanically' automatic. That then moved to 'numerically controlled' (NC) lathes, which I suppose would encompass the type of thing you mention - tape, punch cards etc. until we finally get to 'computer numerical control', our modern CNC lathes, of course.
What drove my 'big as house' comment was the assumption these would be some sort of 'computer control' and I was reflecting upon the computer systems of old where you had whole floor of a building stacked full of huge boxes, the combined capabilities of which would probably be no more than a desk-top server of today.

It would be interesting to see some of this old suff, though. Perhaps there's some in the science museum, if I ever get there.

Its not so long ago there were rooms full of whirring kit. There was an air condition room at Stillingfleet mine (Nth Selby Mine Project) it was full of racks and stuff, with blokes in white overcoats that was in ‘81.

It had big warning signs stating room must be evaluated within xy seconds on hearing fire alarm, as it filled the whole room with Halon

 

[OldunLenny]

Its not so long ago there were rooms full of whirring kit. There was an air condition room at Stillingfleet mine (Nth Selby Mine Project) it was full of racks and stuff, with blokes in white overcoats that was in ‘81.

It had big warning signs stating room must be evaluated with xy seconds on hearing fire alarm, as it filled the whole room with Halon

I wonder what the equivalent 'processing power' would look like today.
I remember once seeing a photo of a 1Mb IBM computer storage drive being loaded by a fork-lift onto a plane (I'm sure it was only 1Mb). This thing was the size of a wardrobe. We now have tens of Gb in a micro flash card, what, 12 MM square. Amazing, when you think about it. We're probabably drifting off-topic a bit here but perhaps somewhat relevant in making modern stand-alone CNC lathes possible.

 

[Seadog]

It's been said that the first digital watch had more computing power than the guidance computer for the Apollo mission.

 

[OldunLenny]

I thought I'd just post up this parts diagram listing. Apologies if everybody is familiar with it but it only costs a couple of minutes upload, and the 'delete' key is easy to use if everyone has it already.
This has been one of the most useful docs I have for several reasons. With these old machines, you can't always assume that what you are seeing in front of you is what should actually be there. (which caught me out a couple of times). This shows things as they should be. It's also a useful assembly diagram, especially to jog the memory when it might be weeks (or longer) between disassembly and reassembly, and finally, it can be useful in identifying that leftover washer and screw.....

The only thing it doesn't include is the solid bearing headstock, I think this was because when this particularly copy was produced, (early '90s) the solid bearing parts were no longer available, but other than the bearings and caps, everything else is the same.

 

[julianthegypsy]

I thought I'd just post up this parts diagram listing. Apologies if everybody is familiar with it but it only costs a couple of minutes upload, and the 'delete' key is easy to use if everyone has it already.
This has been one of the most useful docs I have for several reasons. With these old machines, you can't always assume that what you are seeing in front of you is what should actually be there. (which caught me out a couple of times). This shows things as they should be. It's also a useful assembly diagram, especially to jog the memory when it might be weeks (or longer) between disassembly and reassembly, and finally, it can be useful in identifying that leftover washer and screw.....

The only thing it doesn't include is the solid bearing headstock, I think this was because when this particularly copy was produced, (early '90s) the solid bearing parts were no longer available, but other than the bearings and caps, everything else is the same.

Thanks, it'll come in most useful!