Honda EX4000 generator.

[Cato]

I have an EX4000 generator in which has been standing for some time and now runs fine but doesn't put out and voltage. I did the usual basic/first checks to the breaker, winding resistance etc. and it all checked out fine. I tried flashing it with a battery, 12v lamp into the 110v outlet (no 12v outlet) with no joy. The customer doesn't want to spend too much on it I'm coming up dry on anything else to poke into before telling him I've gone as far as I can before more time consuming and costly stuff.

Anyone offer any suggestions for reasonably quick checks to add into the mix before I pull the pin?

 

[GRW]

I have an EX4000 generator in which has been standing for some time and now runs fine but doesn't put out and voltage. I did the usual basic/first checks to the breaker, winding resistance etc. and it all checked out fine. I tried flashing it with a battery, 12v lamp into the 110v outlet (no 12v outlet) with no joy. The customer doesn't want to spend too much on it I'm coming up dry on anything else to poke into before telling him I've gone as far as I can before more time consuming and costly stuff.

Anyone offer any suggestions for reasonably quick checks to add into the mix before I pull the pin?

Is it an old EX (1990's?) . If yes it might still be a capacitor regulated, & that might have failed.
Do you have any output voltage at all (even a few volts at 50-52hz)?
My old EX1000 is as above, (I got it after it gad been left unused for many years) and while the cap was OK, the voltage was extremely low (single figures).
I stuck something I was unlikely to damage (my cheapy Titan Heat gun) on it - and ran it for a while with the gun as load. This "woke up" the exciter (built up some lost residual magnetism I expect) & it took maybe 15-min, but the voltage steadily built back up to normal.
It's been fine ever since.

 

[Cato]

Is it an old EX (1990's?) . If yes it might still be a capacitor regulated, & that might have failed.
Do you have any output voltage at all (even a few volts at 50-52hz)?
My old EX1000 is as above, (I got it after it gad been left unused for many years) and while the cap was OK, the voltage was extremely low (single figures).
I stuck something I was unlikely to damage (my cheapy Titan Heat gun) on it - and ran it for a while with the gun as load. This "woke up" the exciter (built up some lost residual magnetism I expect) & it took maybe 15-min, but the voltage steadily built back up to normal.
It's been fine ever since.

Yeah that's the one.

No, I'm getting nothing from it at all. The capacitor is a good call, I'll have a look at that. I'll give it a bit longer on a flash just to be sure, but I think that'll be a job for Monday as I'm not really feeling it today. I went to a retirement party Thursday night and I'm still suffering from age related alcohol knackeredness.

 

[GRW]

Yeah that's the one.

No, I'm getting nothing from it at all. The capacitor is a good call, I'll have a look at that. I'll give it a bit longer on a flash just to be sure, but I think that'll be a job for Monday as I'm not really feeling it today. I went to a retirement party Thursday night and I'm still suffering from age related alcohol knackeredness.

Nothing at all, no volts & no frequency - is a bad sign. Unless you were lucky & its a broken connection (ergo there's Nada output from the alternator) it might be curtains.
If you've a frequency output & a bit of voltage, youve a fighting chance.

If it's an AVR type (& you can identify the exciter + & - wires) then you can disconnect them and:
Put the + wire from the exciter connected to a 12v battery +ive & keep the -ive off.
Start up, then with a meter on the output, touch the exciter -ive onto the battery -ive terminal (but only do this for a second or 2, no more, just long enough to see if you get a big jump into 3-figure voltages).
If you get a decent (if not correct) voltage jump it suggests the main windings are OK. It also probably means the exciter winding is OK too (but not definitely, as your battery is capable of a lot more Amps than the AVR can muster).

 

[Cato]

It is an AVR, and access is decent but I don't have a circuit diagram so I need to do a bit of tracing.

I'll check the outputs again as I did only check one (110v). It might be confirmation bias, but it does sound like a loss of residual magnetism. He said it was working then got laid up prior to the lock down and hasn't worked since.

 

[GRW]

It is an AVR, and access is decent but I don't have a circuit diagram so I need to do a bit of tracing.

I'll check the outputs again as I did only check one (110v). It might be confirmation bias, but it does sound like a loss of residual magnetism. He said it was working then got laid up prior to the lock down and hasn't worked since.
View attachment 410054

Looks easy to get at & battery test/flash if you can positively identify Ex+ & Ex-. I'd guess that's your best chance of proving the windings & building residual magnetism.

 

[Cato]

Looks easy to get at & battery test/flash if you can positively identify Ex+ & Ex-. I'd guess that's your best chance of proving the windings & building residual magnetism.

They're the single red (+) and white (-) wires at 11 o'clock, so access is OK as I can make up a lead for each, I think while I'm at it I'll make a test lead out of a 110v plug. It'll save fiddling about with crock clips on pins. It also means I can come in to it on Monday with the stuff and my head ready to go.

 

[GRW]

They're the single red (+) and white (-) wires at 11 o'clock, so access is OK as I can make up a lead for each, I think while I'm at it I'll make a test lead out of a 110v plug. It'll save fiddling about with crock clips on pins. It also means I can come in to it on Monday with the stuff and my head ready to go.

Happy days! Let us know the outcome?

 

[GRW]

There's a guy online that might be helpful if you need a new AVR. Search for "Generator Guru". I spoke to the chap a couple of times & he was helpful, & I think has the rather wonderful name of Styles Beagley if I recall.
I think his main work is supplying replacement AVR's for the notoriously weak Chinese copy Gens... but as they are a rip-off off your EX design (horseshoe AVR) then he might well be able to advise & supply an affordable replacement.
(The OEM Honda AVRs used to be eye-wateringly expensive).
Cheers,
G.

 

[Cato]

Happy days! Let us know the outcome?

Will do.

I had intended to have a look at it today, but it's not happening so I'll do a few bits and head home. Fresh start Monday.

 

[Cato]

There's a guy online that might be helpful if you need a new AVR. Search for "Generator Guru". I spoke to the chap a couple of times & he was helpful, & I think has the rather wonderful name of Styles Beagley if I recall.
I think his main work is supplying replacement AVR's for the notoriously weak Chinese copy Gens... but as they are a rip-off off your EX design (horseshoe AVR) then he might well be able to advise & supply an affordable replacement.
(The OEM Honda AVRs used to be eye-wateringly expensive).
Cheers,
G.

Useful contact, thanks.

 

[reb78]

I had an old generator with no output. Plugging an electrical drill in while the engine was running then pulling the trigger and spinning the chuck LOOSELY by hand saw it spring back into life. If you try it, dont grip the drill chuck as if it works it will start spinning under thr power from tbe generator. I beleive its to do with sending some current back in to re-excite the magnets as mentioned above.

 

[Cato]

I had an old generator with no output. Plugging an electrical drill in while the engine was running then pulling the trigger and spinning the chuck LOOSELY by hand saw it spring back into life. If you try it, dont grip the drill chuck as if it works it will start spinning under thr power from tbe generator. I beleive its to do with sending some current back in to re-excite the magnets as mentioned above.

It's been some years since I've worked on generators, but I've heard of it being done that way. I've only done it with a battery and voltage regulator disconnected personally.

 

[Cato]

There's a guy online that might be helpful if you need a new AVR. Search for "Generator Guru". I spoke to the chap a couple of times & he was helpful, & I think has the rather wonderful name of Styles Beagley if I recall.
I think his main work is supplying replacement AVR's for the notoriously weak Chinese copy Gens... but as they are a rip-off off your EX design (horseshoe AVR) then he might well be able to advise & supply an affordable replacement.
(The OEM Honda AVRs used to be eye-wateringly expensive).
Cheers,
G.

Just been having a nose round the website, they cater for an impressive range and it's easy to navigate which helps.

I noticed they're looking for more "repair partners" too so I've enquired about what that involves. They seem quite sensible so hopefully it's not one of those branded franchise carry ons.

 

[GRW]

Just been having a nose round the website, they cater for an impressive range and it's easy to navigate which helps.

I noticed they're looking for more "repair partners" too so I've enquired about what that involves. They seem quite sensible so hopefully it's not one of those branded franchise carry ons.

As stated (though it was a few years ago, and smaller sets wasn't something we really did)... but the chap was personable, pleasant & helpful. I got the idea he'd done work on a variety of these small sets, & knee his onions regarding the testing & Repair.
If so, then I think they might be able to offer good technical assistance to any "repair partner".
Certainly worth asking about!
(Maybe I should have thought about that myself lol - as its not even like you need a large premises or massive tool set to work on these portables).

 

[Cato]

As stated (though it was a few years ago, and smaller sets wasn't something we really did)... but the chap was personable, pleasant & helpful. I got the idea he'd done work on a variety of these small sets, & knee his onions regarding the testing & Repair.
If so, then I think they might be able to offer good technical assistance to any "repair partner".
Certainly worth asking about!
(Maybe I should have thought about that myself lol - as its not even like you need a large premises or massive tool set to work on these portables).

The repair partner thing sounded interesting because generators are a small part of what I get through the workshop. So having someone on hand who deals with them day in and day out can save time and heart ache when looking for a fault and with someone like that it's often hugely helpful to get the 'we sell loads of this that or the other thingy for them' type of info as well as the sort of specific do/don't/check this type of knowledge.

If you were on the bigger stuff then me telling you that Cummins L10s with Ambac governors will point you to my generator era. None of this taking off a panel and fiddling about in an 18" square enclosure, you took out a wall.

 

[GRW]

I think the biggest stuff for me was the odd 1 - 2.5MVA machine, with most being much smaller 40 - 250, & 300 - 800kva.
Relative toys

 

[Guineafowl]

I had an old generator with no output. Plugging an electrical drill in while the engine was running then pulling the trigger and spinning the chuck LOOSELY by hand saw it spring back into life. If you try it, dont grip the drill chuck as if it works it will start spinning under thr power from tbe generator. I beleive its to do with sending some current back in to re-excite the magnets as mentioned above.

This has worked a couple of times for me:

Good channel for small engine/garden equipment repairs too,

 

[reb78]

This has worked a couple of times for me:

Good channel for small engine/garden equipment repairs too,

Thats exactly it. Mine needed a little more manual turning initially but otherwise the same. It works fine every time since and i might leave it a year ot more between uses.

 

[frank horton]

finally got someone to test my Honda EB1900........
turns out it's just the three diodes in the reg......
which is a solid block of resin........found a new one at £200.......
will buy a cheapy then bin it when it goes bad........
I wont ever buy another Honda generator.....
PS it's like new and it's done little, it's just for back up at the house.......