Indexable Lathe tooling questions?

[busastars]

Looking to upgrade the type of tooling I use, currently I use the cheap multi'coloured cutting tools with 3/8 / 10mm shank. I also grind down my own cutters from HSS bar.

Now as many on here know I have just bought myself a Mill, I would like to share as much tooling from one to the other as I can. I want to start using Indexable cutters for ease of use and I can make my own tool holders/fly cutters for the Index tips.

Now for the list of questions

Is there any advantage / dis'advantage in using eather 3/8" or 1/2" ( 10mm or 13mm ) Index tool holder? I can go eather size for the Lathe.

As for tips ive seen two types of shapes:

Triangle shaped 3 tip

Tilted Square 2 tip

Which type is better, gessing the Triangle 3 tip?????

Seen there are a few different types, what is the most popular? I would not like to buy a tool holder and find that tips are a nightmare to get hold of. Cost also comes into it, dont want somthing that will cost me to much.

Somthing I was looking at was these, are they a waste of money?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Indexable-Car...Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item3ca6490f88

 

[Flathead_Dave]

Those ebay ones don't look like the insert is suported very well.
These look better for budget tools.

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Chronos_Catalogue_Glanze_Indexable_Lathe_Tools_77.html

Is the turning and facing tool the sort of tilted square you mean?
You can't do both cuts without moving the tool with triangular inserts.
Do you mean a 13mm tool will give you a centre height and you can use a 10mm with packing?
I would always go with the larger tool for a more ridgid set up.The insert is less likely to break with less flex.

 

[busastars]

Chears Dave,

The cutters I use now are 3/8 or 10mm, they are packed from the bace up so I could go alot bigger, probably even bigger than the 1/2" or 13mm I said but trying to stick with common/cheap sizes. So go with the bigger size then for more ridgid setup.

Yes the one tool/tip was a tilted square and the other was a triangle. That is the only two types I have seen.

With the tool/holder I would go for just one, or one general cutting holder. I do want to use a general tip/tool, somthing popular. I dont understand all those numbers they come with but im sure one of those numbers relate to what size/tool holder thay work with.

With spare tips I can use these for my own tool holders that I will make for my certain jobs I will be doing like fly cutters etc.


Ops forgot to say, I do like RDG Tools, I ordered with them yesterday, they gave me a good discount, free delivery, nice people to talk to, told me it will be delivered next day and as far as I can see everything is 100%.

 

[graffian]

Look up insert shapes, I am sure you will find a nice explanation with pics.

The first letter is shape, O, H, T, S, R and so on, you should be able to guess what those ones are;-)
The second letter refers to the clearance. N is negative i.e the front is perpendicular to the seat the insert sit's on, the alternative letters are different angles.
Third letter is Tolerance, never given this one any thought;-)
The fourth letter is shape of the top, chipbreaker, hole and so on.

I use mostly CNMG 120404. You will also find them labeled as CNMG431.

12 is length of the cutting edge, 04 is 4mm thick, 04 is .4mm radius.


I like Cs, that an 80° parallelogram, I use CNMGs, they are double sided so I get four corners for normal surfacing cuts, then I have another toolholder that uses the other 4 corners for facing. I also have a boring bar which take CNs, so I get quite a bit of use from them.

I use triangles mostly for boring, but have collected tooling to use something like 6 sizes of triangles. I did plan on rationalising inserts, just having triangles, but I just picked up whatever tooling was cheapest.

Holders are not hard to make, I have various big boring bars I made and quite a few odd milling cutters.
I always went for the biggest toolholders that fit, my front toolpost will take 15/16, so 22mm tooling fits. My very old lathe would take a 32mm tool!

I use V shape inserts, 35° parallelogram, for flycutting. You can get very sharp inserts with a nice small radius, they leave a nice finish.

I never got a decent finish with them on my old lathe, 600rpm max spindle speed, I run my new lathe[55 years old next next month] at 2500rpm almost all the time and get a much better finish unless the diameter is small.

 

[shenion]

I picked up triangle and square inserts off ebay.

I made my own toolholders out of 1/2" SS bar:

These are not the ideal inserts. I wanted ones with a relief angle, these are straight SNMG-322 ( the N means no front angle.) I may angle them down a bit. It is just easier to set them a bit below center as that has the same effect but doe snot work well on larger stock..

I have triangle inserts with 3/8" holders. Two sets, both have a 7 degree releif angle, one has a chip breaker.

I have this pdf in my bookmarks. It explains all the types and the standard IDs letters and numbers. The ISO numbering is similar, I look them up on use-enco.com.

I try to get inserts that match the angles on the HSS bits I used. A chip breaker is nice to have.

The -3xx is a 3/8" incised circle (largest circle that fits inside the insert.) For triangle inserts, that works well on 1/2" holders (the triagle is just over 1/2" on a side.) As you see the 322's in the pic are a bit small for 1/2" holders. On the upper one, I milled a bit off the side so it can be used for facing.

I bought two sets of 10 off ebay, the TPMN-222 and SNMG-322 and they cost me about $10 each set. I did make a dovetail cutter also:

Made from tool steel. I do need to make the insert fit better (there is a wedge behind it to keep it from turning; missing in the pic.)

Also made some boring bars:

 

[jugs]

Rember that milling is normaly interupted cutting, not all tips will tolerate that for long, there are special grades available see manufacturers data, thats why you have Turning grades & Milling grades.

Universal tips are becoming more readily available but are very expensve & generaly only a poor compromise

Some bedtime reading ->

http://www.kennametal.com/images/pdf/cat_help/Mill_Ins_CutMatGradeSel.pdf

http://www.carbidedepot.com/sandvik-grades.htm

http://www.mitsubishicarbide.net/mm.../grade/information/turning/sensakuzaishu.html

http://www.atistellram.com/Turning/Grade.htm

http://www.atistellram.com/Milling/Grade.htm

http://www.anconline.com/gradecomparisonchartmw.htm

Important.
When using carbide DO NOT use intermittent cooling (dabbing on with a brush or a squeezy bottle ) as the heat/cool stress shatters the tip surface, run dry or flood.

 

[busastars]

I knew there was more to it than just buy a bar and some inserts


That has helped, gives me a good insight on what to look for to suit my needs. You can search the internet for ages but not knowing what to look for can be there for ages, its a nice start.

Right then, this is already a tooling thread so how about turning it into a Mill & Lathe home made Tooling thread

Come on and post your pics:

 

[hareng]

Busa, as big as you can hold there will be less flexing the downside of ****** tooling.
I have the Glanze crap and a few other sets from Chronos and RGD, i certainly would not recommend, the bars flex like no tomorrow and the tips next to useless.
What you have to do is put extra lateral pressure on or they wont cut, tool visually deflects starting the cut.
Even the J&L own brand flex at £55 on offer for a 16mm boring bar, even sending down numerous times leaves a slight taper, you can imagine what above two are like.
If like me you will find it very hard to muster forking out for decent tooling, but both short and long term it pays for itself. You will have better finishes, tips last longer, you can put a cut on and most of all no tool flex.

No substitute decent brands like Kennametal (especially the Top Notch range,) Iscar, Sandvik and Mitsubishi or its false economy.
These will turn hardened valve stems! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-KENNAMETAL-...Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item53dd858fbd

Decent quality HSS are as good as anything get the ones with M42 5% Cobalt etc.

 

[busastars]

Trying to work out the numbers, what are these like?????

SANDVIK INSERTS LNMX19 19 40-PM 4215


All my tooling for the Mill I will make myself, just want one universal tool holder for the Lathe, ill make all the rest of mine. Tips I want to be interchangable, also been looking at round tips for when I make my flycutter.

 

[shenion]

busastars, there is a "decoder" here.

BTW, my $1/ea inserts are Mitubishi and Broussard. Keep an eye on ebay, lots of shop closeouts and some tooling is coming up cheap.

Most are "N" with no front relief angle. Not the best for small lathes.

 

[graffian]

I am not sure I have any pics of any complete tooling. I know I have a pic
of some inserts in their home made homes..

From memory an L is a rectangle, I wouldn't bother with them, go for either parallelograms or triangles?

The pic above, bottom triangle is an insert holder to go in a large[ish] boring bar used in the lathe[bar held in the chuck]
square insert is a flycutter holder that was mounted on a montego flywheel clamped to my mill spindle.
The Trigon insert is a boring bar, it uses a clamp to hold the insert,
The V shaped insert is my 12" flycutter, nice sharp inserts leave a lovely finish on ali.
The square is a 15/16 spot facer.
The next is a thread cutting insert holder.

 

[jugs]

Busa, as big as you can hold there will be less flexing the downside of ****** tooling.
I have the Glanze crap and a few other sets from Chronos and RGD, i certainly would not recommend, the bars flex like no tomorrow and the tips next to useless.
What you have to do is put extra lateral pressure on or they wont cut, tool visually deflects starting the cut.
Even the J&L own brand flex at £55 on offer for a 16mm boring bar, even sending down numerous times leaves a slight taper, you can imagine what above two are like.
If like me you will find it very hard to muster forking out for decent tooling, but both short and long term it pays for itself. You will have better finishes, tips last longer, you can put a cut on and most of all no tool flex.

No substitute decent brands like Kennametal (especially the Top Notch range,) Iscar, Sandvik and Mitsubishi or its false economy.
These will turn hardened valve stems! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-KENNAMETAL-...Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item53dd858fbd

Decent quality HSS are as good as anything get the ones with M42 5% Cobalt etc.

You cant afford to buy cheep tooling.

 

[busastars]

Got these in my watch list, end in about 40 mins:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290439276974&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

[brightspark]

have u got the tip toolholder to match them??

 

[busastars]

have u got the tip toolholder to match them??

No, havent got anything just yet. Could go for £18 delivered if knowone bids for 30 inserts though.

 

[brightspark]

will probably cost about 45 quid for the tool holder

 

[brightspark]

a decent set of hss tools will do most jobs and easily sharpen on a grinder tiptools are ok for hard materials but expensive and chip easily on rough material

 

[busastars]

Bright,

Just wondering, no offence hounestly but have you read through the post?

I do already have HSS tools and currently grind my own tools for my lathe. Im looking to upgrade so to speek and tip tools is the way im going to go, I can just change tips when they need doing, also share tips with all the tooling and with the Mill tools ill be making.

 

[shenion]

Got these in my watch list, end in about 40 mins:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290439276974&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

You do realize those are 19mm on a side?

Will need a holder near the same size. Rotated 45 deg, would need a 25mm holder to support it.

Problem I have is mine only takes 1/2" holders. Much of the tooling on ebay is bigger for big production lathes.

 

[busastars]

Ahh right, was trying to work it out on the chart and a few things dident add up. New to all these index stuff.

Glad you just said that was tempted to put a bid on.