Land Rover V8 restoration - what have I got myself into?

[willie.macleod]

Well done @Jelly_Sheffield for the work done to date, I'd have done the same as you and kept the bulkhead on the vehicle to help keep it square(ish) and save a bit of time for the work that is required to remove/replace it. Lots of folk paying £2k for new ones but quite a few variants so not always straight fit. Looks like you are well on top of it, keep it to welding wire, gas, grinding disks and a bit of sheet to keep the costs down. Funny how the conversation turns to Renault Traffic Mk 1, was looking at one yesterday which arrived on the island and for once it was the mechanicals that were the issue not the rust although I have no doubt that will become apparent once I look somewhere other than the engine bay Make sure to put up the finished item pics as inspiration for others!

 

[Blobber]

Wow thats rusty, good on you for having a go at saving it

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Got another little chunk done tonight.

Finished removing the outrigger, initially with plasma gouging, then what felt like an age getting into all the fiddly bits in those mounting tabs using carbide burrs on the die grinder to ensure it's all clean metal...

As evidenced in the picture, I got a bit enthusiastic with the lump hammer last night separating the old outrigger and bent the brace, but not so badly I couldn't tack it back in place whilst standing on it.

Doing the fit-up it turns out there's a subtle difference between the original outrigger and the pattern parts that results in a gap between the body mounting bosses in the outrigger and bulkhead foot.

Lost a bunch of time puzzling over that and even went so far as spending a bunch of time with the drawings in the workshop manual, measuring to ensure they're both in the correct place relative to unaltered features on the chassis... So I guess I will need to turn a spacer before I torque up that bolt.

Spent a while experimenting on the old outrigger to get a feeling for my settings on the borrowed welder, but had enough time to tack and plug weld (×16) the new outrigger in.

Then made the classic mistake of trying to push on when tired and made a right **** of welding out two of the edges, struggling to hold my arc length and flip-flopping between incomplete fusion and excessive weld deposition because my movements weren't smooth... It's probably 7 months since I've done any positional welding and I can feel that it's not as reflexive as I need it to be in a tight spot like that.

Tomorrow's job will be to grind those back and do a proper job, so it's all sealed up and I'm not creating a new rust trap.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Well done @Jelly_Sheffield for the work done to date, I'd have done the same as you and kept the bulkhead on the vehicle to help keep it square(ish) and save a bit of time for the work that is required to remove/replace it.

It's a case of picking your poison I think... If you leave it on its awkward, if you take it off it's a bunch of additional work and awkwardness with rusty fasteners and manoeuvring it in and out.

Looks like you are well on top of it, keep it to welding wire, gas, grinding disks and a bit of sheet to keep the costs down.

I was particularly chuffed that I was able to get all my additional patches out of the unused sections of repair panels, so I didn't have to buy additional sheet steel.

Grinding disks are one thing I don't seem to be going through so far...

I decided to challenge myself to learn how to make the most of the plasma for gouging and am mostly going straight from torch to flap-disk without needing to grind back heavily.

Honestly don't know why I didn't do that sooner, I'm not quite as precise as I might be with a gas torch or air-arc, but so much easier to use in a confined space like this.

Funny how the conversation turns to Renault Traffic Mk 1, was looking at one yesterday which arrived on the island and for once it was the mechanicals that were the issue

Hahaha, I have already had my fill of the mechanicals on this one, helping my mate chase down a continuous run of coolant leaks, and figuring out the weirdness with the rear hub nuts that will toast the bearings if set to more than hand tight (thankfully before doing so).

But it's all fun really!

Make sure to put up the finished item pics as inspiration for others!

I feel like I'm treading a fine line between inspiration and cautionary tale to be honest... I'll aim for the former and see how it goes!

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Bonus image of quite how rusted the leading edge of the outrigger was:

Should have got a photo of the other section for comparison that was rock solid.

Given how solid it is in areas where the bitumen remains intact, I strongly suspect it started to corrode when it was still being driven but only actually broke through during the 15 year period it was communing with a hedge.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

So I spent a good portion of this evening lying on the ground listening to the whirr of the knackered bearings in my ad-flo and thinking about my life choices.

That said, I actually quite enjoy awkward out of position welding

Grinding disks are one thing I don't seem to be going through so far...

Well, I think we can safely say I have had the hubris knocked out of me.

No disasters, but I spent a lot of time grinding back and reworking welds this evening to arrive a a result that I believe is adequate...

But that I am absolutely not happy with.

In the end the best I could accomplish was to get decent roots in and accept that it would result in some over-reinforcement that will need to be ground back.

The plug welds warped my nice tight fit up on the backing plate, and doing a 1mm to 3mm lap fillet with random gaps behind the outer plate was just hell.

Not to mention the number of times I got my helmet hung up on something, or my torch hand stuck, or the borrowed welder had a wire feed issue and forced a restart just as I felt I was getting into the swing.

At the moment I think that if I grind everything back I probably only need to re-work two of the overhead welds, which I will do with a gas torch so I can have a bit more control.

I will come back tomorrow and re-assess with a clearer head.

 

[Matchless]

Following on from rewiring the Isuzu Trooper (advice: Don't)... I traded it for a "running" Stage 1 V8.

I knew it needed new brakes and a bit of bulkhead welding... but it started first turn of the screwdriver (ignition barrel sized), and ran sweet.

However:

• It had pretty serious electrical problems (had, because on the advice of two separate auto electricians, I have cut out the entire loom and ordered new) that meant it kept catching fire...

• Stripping out the original fitted sound insulation, and dash to get at the electrics revealed that I seriously underestimated how much welding was needed on the bulkhead.
This is the "good" side that doesn't need as much work:
View attachment 455444

Excellent use of the time honoured technique of [checks notes] crudely tack welding a plate in with a stick welder and slathering it with seam seal from the wrong side so it forms a gigantic rust trap... Which has helpfully eaten away at critical stamped components.


View attachment 455445
Less bad, but same deal.

View attachment 455446
And the pièce de résistance, the a-post and bulkhead skin had rusted through at the weld...

Which had been ground back and packed with body filler, camouflaging it well, whilst also directing water down the inside rusting out more sections until it had all the structural rigidity of a jelly snake from the woolies pick-n-mix!

I wish I had a before photo to show how innocuous it looked.

It is not a virgin for sure!

 

[8ob]

I cant work on these landrover chassis's with the bodywork on, just seems like very hard work to me when the whole lot can be off in a couple of hours.

Bob

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

I cant work on these landrover chassis's with the bodywork on, just seems like very hard work to me when the whole lot can be off in a couple of hours.

Bob

I'm working on it in a shared yard, so there's a limit to how much space I can reasonably take up before it upsets the neighbours (who are very accommodating about the Trailer, Genny, Compressor, gigantic stack of Laycorn Boxes, cylinder cage, and so on)...

If I had space I probably would have gone down that route... If not before, right about now.

 

[willie.macleod]

Don't beat yourself up over getting things to look perfect, as long as its structurally ok then that's good enough. Way better than what was there before and that job is good as done now ready to get that footwell and bulkhead diaphragm sorted next. Get yourself a leather monkey mask and you will find things a bit easier, I will also sometimes use flux core for limited access jobs especially outside as I can then get rid of the torch shroud giving a bit better access.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Don't beat yourself up over getting things to look perfect, as long as its structurally ok then that's good enough. Way better than what was there before and that job is good as done now ready to get that footwell and bulkhead diaphragm sorted next.

I know, old habits die hard though...

Definitely want to improve the overhead welds for rust prevention, but maybe it's better to just give them a coat of weld through primer, and sort later when I can cadge some time on a lift, or at least jack it way up in the air to have some room to manoeuvre.

Get yourself a leather monkey mask and you will find things a bit easier, I will also sometimes use flux core for limited access jobs especially outside as I can then get rid of the torch shroud giving a bit better access.

I was thinking "I wish I had a monkey mask" this evening actually, so that will have to go on the shopping list.

Flux-Core might be an idea, although I don't have a lot of experience with cored wire in general, and next to none with Inner-Shield wire.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Too much wind to do any more on the body tonight, but the upgrade window channels arrived today (Courtesy of the Series 3, Ninety & One-Ten Owners Club), so cracked on with that.

I'm calling this:

A huge improvement over, this situation:

Thankfully whilst the channels themselves had rotted to bits, the door itself was untouched, (courtesy of some overenthusiasticly applied butyl rubber sealant).

The replacement channels, being close fitting polypropylene extrusions, are a lot more awkward to fit than the original felt-lined galvanised pressing, and screws (at least in the sizes I carry in stock) are all too big.

However, 2.4mm pop rivets fit *perfectly*, protroude upwards less, and have a smooth domed head for the window to slide on, ideal!

Installing pop rivets down in a 5mm wide channel however poses a problem in getting the riveter to press on the head...

But I came up with a neat little hack for that:

A strategically selected offcut of 4.75mm brake line slips over neatly and fits in the channel.

At which point you can rivet away.

For anyone seeking to replicate this method, standard length 2.4mm pop rivets are a little too short, something I learned by experience earlier... 12mm long ones however work like a charm.

 

[seriesonewelder]

Fair play for repairing the bulkhead, I've made LR bulkheads, series one & specials so a bit simpler. I see the engine still has the Strombergs, you'll have to check if the restrictors in the inlet manifold have been removed.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Fair play for repairing the bulkhead, I've made LR bulkheads, series one & specials so a bit simpler. I see the engine still has the Strombergs, you'll have to check if the restrictors in the inlet manifold have been removed.

I plan to get to the engine eventually... From the history I have it's likely still in original condition.

My original plan was to do a full rebuild, and fit a high-lift camshaft, and high-compression pistons from a Rover P6, which combined with the restrictors out should get me to somewhere like 160-170 hp.

However, I'm not sure what I would do with all that power, let alone how I would pay for the fuel, and the budget has taken a bit of a hit with the wiring loom and bulkhead, so we will see.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Now we're getting somewhere!

Extremely faffy to fit, but it was always going to be.

After an initial grind back, there's a couple of spots I need to add an additional spot of weld metal to, but I am happy with how it went in.

Fitted the repair panel up with just enough of a gap to make an open-corner weld between the repair panel and the replacement internal reinforcement plate I fitted at the weekend, then run a second "bead" of spot welds, to connect that weld to the existing bulkhead.

That definitely made life harder, but it's clearly a better job than leaving that internal support floating.

 

[Smallfry]

Check under the windscreen to bulkhead seal, as you may find holes in the top edge of the bulkhead.

Don't use 10.5 to 1 pistons. Will cause loads of hassle with timing issues.

 

[Red'n'Black]

Great work so far. My step dad had a 1957 Series 1, that he ended up having to scrap due to a rotten bulkhead.

The moral of the story seems to be, if you're going to buy a Land Rover, learn how to weld first.

 

[sako243]

The moral of the story seems to be, if you're going to buy a Land Rover, learn how to weld first.

Buy a Land Rover and you'll soon learn how to.

The best thing for a Land Rover is to actually use it and use it hard. They don't like sitting around.

Mine is my daily driver and I've had to do a couple of patches by the gearbox cross member, front dumb irons and rear cross member. Rest of the original 1994 chassis is solid, when the rear cross member was off we shoved a bore cam down and checked it out. Considering in the 14 years I've owned it it's been washed 4 times, waxoyled once and driven through all sorts of **** (metaphorically and literally) I find that rather good going. Any crap that's on there tends to fall off due to the daily use. Dad's gone through three Shoguns, all killed due to rust, in the same time and he doesn't give them a tenth of the abuse I give the 110.

 

[Wildefalcon]

Have you discovered YRM bulkhead parts? They're okay?

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

The moral of the story seems to be, if you're going to buy a Land Rover, learn how to weld first.

Arguably so...

Personally I would say the moral of the story is:

"if you trade a just barely roadworthy Japanese 4x4, for an extremely rare Landrover someone parked 15 years ago and recently pulled out of a newly formed hedge, you should not underestimate the amount of corrosion on it"

Which takes us neatly to:

The best thing for a Land Rover is to actually use it and use it hard. They don't like sitting around.

I think the same is true of any vehicle TBF, every vehicle I have owned or worked on that's been left stood for an extended period has either been an unending nightmare, or needed a run-in period after a major overhaul before it is reliable again.

Check under the windscreen to bulkhead seal, as you may find holes in the top edge of the bulkhead.

Is there any way to check that without detaching the windscreen assembly from the roof?

Would be good to do now whilst I'm in a bulkhead welding mindset... But I am not ready for sorting the screen out yet and only want to have to do it once.

Don't use 10.5 to 1 pistons. Will cause loads of hassle with timing issues.

I'm not committed to that "upgrade", as it's substantially more work, for a dubious gain.

Is it harder to time them correctly in general or does it actually need other components from a 10.5:1 engine to get the timing right?

Have you discovered YRM bulkhead parts? They're okay?

That's where I got my upper bulkhead repair panels, A-pillar feet, footwells and fixing kits...

I would say the YRM stuff is pretty good in both design and execution compared to the Britpart et. al. parts.