Laser engraving brass (or an alternative)

[Dr.Al]

Has anyone on here got a laser that's capable of engraving brass (or a better idea for what I'm trying to do)?

I've been trying to make some 20 mm diameter brass discs with a logo etched into them (the plan is to fill the etched bit in with dial wax to give a black-on-brass finish). I'm getting rather mixed results with photolithography (it's a bit of a pain to get a good coating with the photoresist film on a small disc) and hence I'm looking for an alternative!

 

[Ali]

Look up a product called (I think) Ceramark. It’s expensive but about the only thing available (since I last checked) to engrave on metals. To be honest I’m not sure even whether it works on brass.

With a laser you wouldn’t be likely to get a deep enough engrave to hold an infill. I did something similar with a small CNC engraver not long ago. @julianf is the expert on this, I’ve had good results with rotary engraving in the past but struggled this time for some reason and eventually used a 0.3mm flat tool

 

[Dr.Al]

Look up a product called (I think) Ceramark. It’s expensive but about the only thing available (since I last checked) to engrave on metals. To be honest I’m not sure even whether it works on brass.

With a laser you wouldn’t be likely to get a deep enough engrave to hold an infill. I did something similar with a small CNC engraver not long ago. @julianf is the expert on this, I’ve had good results with rotary engraving in the past but struggled this time for some reason and eventually used a 0.3mm flat tool

View attachment 472985

I guess CNC engraving could work: I hadn't thought of that, thanks. Do you know how expensive it is to get things CNC engraved? I don't really want to buy any kit (no space!): I'd rather pay someone to do it for me!

 

[Ali]

Can you post your design? How many do you need?

If you’ve done the CAD work it should make it a bit cheaper, I guess like anything it will get cheaper the more units you buy.

If it’s simple enough I might have a go for you. I’m putting the equipment up for sale soonish as I don’t have space either!

 

[Mick Annick]

you could try these

https://www.brunelengraving.co.uk

https://www.brunelengraving.co.uk/prod/brass-valve-labels/brass-valve-and-tag-labels-40mm-diameter?_gl=1*1e1i047*_up*MQ..*_ga*MTM1MzQ5ODI0NC4xNzMxODc0NjAy*_ga_C66Z5M0VY1*MTczMTg3NDYwMi4xLjEuMTczMTg3NDY1Ni4wLjAuMTc1MjI2Nw..*_ga_FLBFW16CG6*MTczMTg3NDYwMi4xLjEuMTczMTg3NDY1Ni4wLjAuMjEwODgzMTYyNA..&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5LC77JbkiQMV_gsGAB2KTB80EAAYASAAEgL4cvD_BwE&gbraid=0AAAAAD-ZDixKb5jauWblSWlEqBfQbiJCE

Badges engraving |Trophy Engraved | UK, Birmingham

Hamilton Rand Ltd badges engraving, trophies, marking punches,branding iron and more. Visit our website or call us 01213443202.

hamilton-rand.co.uk

 

[Dr.Al]

Can you post your design? How many do you need?

If you’ve done the CAD work it should make it a bit cheaper, I guess like anything it will get cheaper the more units you buy.

If it’s simple enough I might have a go for you. I’m putting the equipment up for sale soonish as I don’t have space either!

I'll send you a PM

 

[Dr.Al]

you could try these

https://www.brunelengraving.co.uk

https://www.brunelengraving.co.uk/prod/brass-valve-labels/brass-valve-and-tag-labels-40mm-diameter?_gl=1*1e1i047*_up*MQ..*_ga*MTM1MzQ5ODI0NC4xNzMxODc0NjAy*_ga_C66Z5M0VY1*MTczMTg3NDYwMi4xLjEuMTczMTg3NDY1Ni4wLjAuMTc1MjI2Nw..*_ga_FLBFW16CG6*MTczMTg3NDYwMi4xLjEuMTczMTg3NDY1Ni4wLjAuMjEwODgzMTYyNA..&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5LC77JbkiQMV_gsGAB2KTB80EAAYASAAEgL4cvD_BwE&gbraid=0AAAAAD-ZDixKb5jauWblSWlEqBfQbiJCE

Badges engraving |Trophy Engraved | UK, Birmingham

Hamilton Rand Ltd badges engraving, trophies, marking punches,branding iron and more. Visit our website or call us 01213443202.

hamilton-rand.co.uk

Thanks, that's interesting. I was hoping for something a bit thicker, but thin would be okay. I'll see how I get on with @Ali and failing that might give them a go.

 

[Agroshield]

I guess CNC engraving could work

Try these people for a quote:

Diane Carney Nameplates - Home

Diane Carney nameplates manufacture and restore a variety of photo etched plates specialising in steam locomotives.

www.loco-nameplates.co.uk

Could you photoresist a larger piece, etch it and then make it into a 20mm diameter circle at the end?

You could look on eBay or Etsy or elsewhere to see what a typical nameplate (maybe even a dog tag) costs and compare with what you need in terms of square footage and complexity (e.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114088445785). Be wary that some things described as 'brass' are actually actrylic.

At 20mm diameter, would a stamping/coining be an option? Expensive for a small number to make the tooling, but cheap after that.

 

[julianf]

Has anyone on here got a laser that's capable of engraving brass (or a better idea for what I'm trying to do)?

I've been trying to make some 20 mm diameter brass discs with a logo etched into them (the plan is to fill the etched bit in with dial wax to give a black-on-brass finish). I'm getting rather mixed results with photolithography (it's a bit of a pain to get a good coating with the photoresist film on a small disc) and hence I'm looking for an alternative!

Whats the application for the part?

Is it going to be handled (abraded) or will it sit behind glass (or similar)?

A part on a keyring requires a significantly different method to a plaque on a trophy. And then the range of environments in between these two...

 

[m_c]

I also have an engraver that could probably do this, but it would depend on the level of detail needed.

I'm also considering selling my engraver, but I'm not currently desperate for the bench space that it's taking up.

 

[julianf]

ps

a couple of photos (not that im touting for work at all - i probably dont want to do it, but may be able to suggest a differing method) -

(more photos and stuff here - https://thebeast.co.uk/2d/ - again im not touting for work in this area, as i do way more silk screen print than rotary engraving now)

 

[Dr.Al]

Try these people for a quote:

Diane Carney Nameplates - Home

Diane Carney nameplates manufacture and restore a variety of photo etched plates specialising in steam locomotives.

www.loco-nameplates.co.uk

Thanks - I'll see what they say.

Could you photoresist a larger piece, etch it and then make it into a 20mm diameter circle at the end?

I did consider that (I have some brass plate that could be used). The challenge there I think would be getting the circle nicely centred after etching. I couldn't think of a good way of doing that: it would be okay for a one-off but a bit of a pain for 10 or so.

You could look on eBay or Etsy or elsewhere to see what a typical nameplate (maybe even a dog tag) costs and compare with what you need in terms of square footage and complexity (e.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114088445785). Be wary that some things described as 'brass' are actually actrylic.

Thanks, that's a good idea (and especially thanks for the warning about 'brass' not being brass)

At 20mm diameter, would a stamping/coining be an option? Expensive for a small number to make the tooling, but cheap after that.

It's only going to be a small number so almost certainly not worth it, especially given the application...

Whats the application for the part?

It's a bit of a vanity thing to be honest. I'm planning on getting a "touch mark" or stamp or whatever you'd call it with my logo, but for a few "special" projects (initially my travel tool chest), I thought it would be nice to inset my logo as a black-on-brass disc. The reason for it being relatively thick (probably 3 mm once finished) is just to make it be set firmly and squarely in a hole, which I see as being a bit easier with a 3 mm thickness than 1 mm, but 1 mm would probably work at a push.

Is it going to be handled (abraded) or will it sit behind glass (or similar)?

It won't be handled much but won't be behind glass or similar. If I manage to get enough that I've got spares, I may have a go at silvering the brass (like what they do with some clock faces).

I also have an engraver that could probably do this, but it would depend on the level of detail needed.

I'm also considering selling my engraver, but I'm not currently desperate for the bench space that it's taking up.

Thanks. I'll ping you a copy of what I've just sent to Ali in case he can't (or doesn't want to) do it.

 

[Kram]

I'm getting rather mixed results with photolithography (it's a bit of a pain to get a good coating with the photoresist film on a small disc) and hence I'm looking for an alternative!

What are you using for photo resist?

Clickspring on YT has some good videos for doing smaller stuff.

 

[julianf]

It won't be handled much but won't be behind glass or similar. If I manage to get enough that I've got spares, I may have a go at silvering the brass (like what they do with some clock faces).

When you do your design, make it an outline, rather than a big solid block of colour.

Think of it like the grime under your finger nails - that stays there throughout the day, but, if it were the same grime on the palm of your hand, or the tip of your finger, it would be gone in no time.

The infill bond with the metal will be weak. Even if you etch it into the brass, brass is still a soft metal. The way you protect the design is the same as the way you "protect" the grime in your fingernails - put it down the bottom of an acute groove.

Something like print will just scrape off. Chemically colored brass may last, but not well. A single line engraved design will last the best. And, on a tool box, if the original infill does come out, it will just get replaced by grime anyway, and look very similar!

If you do a big block of colour youll loose it in a short time.



As a side note - you mention wax -

What they used to do would be apply the wax, clean off the excess, and then heat the part to melt the wax, to get that nice meniscus on the cut. But that would be unsuitable for your application as you would just loose the wax in no time.

 

[Ali]

When you do your design, make it an outline, rather than a big solid block of colour.

Think of it like the grime under your finger nails - that stays there throughout the day, but, if it were the same grime on the palm of your hand, or the tip of your finger, it would be gone in no time.

The infill bond with the metal will be weak. Even if you etch it into the brass, brass is still a soft metal. The way you protect the design is the same as the way you "protect" the grime in your fingernails - put it down the bottom of an acute groove.

Something like print will just scrape off. Chemically colored brass may last, but not well. A single line engraved design will last the best. And, on a tool box, if the original infill does come out, it will just get replaced by grime anyway, and look very similar!

If you do a big block of colour youll loose it in a short time.



As a side note - you mention wax -

What they used to do would be apply the wax, clean off the excess, and then heat the part to melt the wax, to get that nice meniscus on the cut. But that would be unsuitable for your application as you would just loose the wax in no time.

@Dr.Al send Julian your design for critique, as I said he’s the expert here. I think it would hold a paint infill (like mine in post 2) very well. I’d be doing this with a 0.3/0.5mm slot drill if it were me, I don’t think Julian would go that way but his result would no doubt be better.

P.S. it’s a very nice design too

 

[julianf]

he’s the expert here

Im really no expert in anything. I make it up as i go along, and if the day's balance is more success than failure, its a good thing.

 

[My Old Landy]

My IR laser can engrave brass but as it's only 2w it would take an age to get the depth required. If you can find someone with 20w or above, like the F1 ultra, it would do that no problem. The camera system is superb so will centralise the design easily. I won't be getting mine until April next year so not much use to you, sorry!

 

[Dev]

I wish I had an excuse to get an F1Ultra but just can’t think of anything.

 

[My Old Landy]

I wish I had an excuse to get an F1Ultra but just can’t think of anything.

I've had a few enquiries for my craft business to produce deeper engraving in brass etc. At £3.5k it's a big investment but it's only money

 

[Dev]

You’d have to flog a lot of trinkets to make that back