making double gglazed windows

[normspanners]

and even then some things get charged for a bit. especially the 4 meter wide collapsible gate that needs to be out of sight

Bit like the stealth mode V bombers they could be invisible, but, they did charge a bit for them apparently!!

 

[brokenbiker]

well I plan on making up three gate frames, hinges on them so they fold up and then swing 180* on the main post hinges so the are in the hedge when they are open

 

[the artfull-codger]

yes, proper ones have a vacuum, but I don't have facility to make a vacuum, but I can get hold of nitrogen.

I have made a basic design that uses a box section frame, with a strip of flat bar plug welded to the inside of the box section fram, so there is a recess for the glass to fit in.

then it would be covered in sealent, glass put on and more flat bar welded as a lip over the glass, or possibly bolted then tack the bolts so they cant be removed, as welding so close to the glass could cause issues. then sealent around the edges. drill and tap a hole, purge with nitrogen, then put a bolt wrapped in ptfe in the hole to keep the nitrogen in...

on second thoughts, im gonna tell him to buy them. typing that out has made me realise how many things could go wrong...

I'm afraid you're wrong there m8 ''proper'' dg units don't have a vacuum at all they're just sealed with 2 part compound & stood up to go off in fact some large units sometimes touch in the middle & the seal cut & pulled apart with 2 suckers[no not the blokes doing it!!] they re sealed, they can be argon filled as well, when I say the seal's cut it's only a small nick through the sealant to allow more air to enter then re-sealed,the hollow spacer bar's filled with a dessicant to absorb any moisture in the factory.

 

[octo0072000]

D/G unit have a vacuum when the units are made the glass is washed and heated then glued as it cools you get a vacuum in it used to watch them being made at John carrs factory in doncaster

 

[the artfull-codger]

D/G unit have a vacuum when the units are made the glass is washed and heated then glued as it cools you get a vacuum in it used to watch them being made at John carrs factory in doncaster

well john carrs ''might'' have a vacuum but there again I bow down to your knowledge on the law of physics,I can only comment on the company I worked for & after going through the washer with demin water they were dried with compressesd air knives [type of blower] then pre sealed & finally 2 pack sealed & no vacuum, as said if there was a vacuum then really large units would touch in the middle & cause them to condense on the outside.

 

[DrNik]

making the windows out of flat bar is easy, making an "L" around the perimeter and a "T" to infill, buy the units, its far cheaper and they can adjust the thickness using different diameter glazing bar

toasty warm, single glazed no condensation or damp inside

 

[octo0072000]

well john carrs ''might'' have a vacuum but there again I bow down to your knowledge on the law of physics,I can only comment on the company I worked for & after going through the washer with demin water they were dried with compressesd air knives [type of blower] then pre sealed & finally 2 pack sealed & no vacuum, as said if there was a vacuum then really large units would touch in the middle & cause them to condense on the outside.

didn't you never do the science lab boil water in a tin screw the lid on leave to cool the tin collapses on itself
video here bigger scale

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-3cu_Q119s&html5=1

 

[the artfull-codger]

didn't you never do the science lab boil water in a tin screw the lid on leave to cool the tin collapses on itself
video here bigger scale

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-3cu_Q119s&html5=1

Errr no [impressive video btw] but I did work 25 yrs for one of the largest glass manufacturers & inventors of ''float'' glass in the world.
Regards G

 

[brightspark]

D/G unit have a vacuum when the units are made the glass is washed and heated then glued as it cools you get a vacuum in it used to watch them being made at John carrs factory in doncaster

no vaccum here ive watched them 2 and repaired the machines http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbxSgtUIpj4

 

[DrNik]

i once was given a handful of the beans/balls that they put in the silver bar that goes round the edge of the glass, it got bloody hot from the moisture in my hand, the glass isnt subject to a vacuum anymore just a dessicant to absorb any moisture, which when the units are knackered can be refilled, argon filled isnt under any pressure its just allowed to flood fill the unit before its sealed/glued around the edge

 

[KemppiFrog]

The problem with making window frames is that the frame needs a thermal break IE the inside is not directly connected to the outside if it doesnt have the thermal break it will condensate on the frame on the inside, Gallons of it. old ally frames used to have the problem the later ones frames where joined inside to out by bonding with resin

Hi Norm,
I used to work with Technal sections. They were early with the thermal break, quite complicated and priced to suite. ( They also had a range of bullet proof stuff.. popular with the Russian lot flooding in) I don't remember the break stuff being used much. Warm country and the heating and cooling was turned up a notch to suit. Condensation was not a problem that I noticed , despite the winters being wet and a bit cool.

 

[XMWelder]

Double glazing

Double glazing panels are filled with argon. A vacuum would cause the glass to implode. Atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi so a large window would have considerable force acting on it. Ironically a vacuum (assuming the glass would be strong enough) isn't the best heat insulator - one of the noble gases is. Argon is generally used as it performs better than dry air. Another factor of insulation is the gap between the glass panes - if too small, heat transference can be a factor and if the gap is too large, turbulance and convection currents in the gas layer can cause heat to transfer from warmer interior to the outside. A secondary glazing frame in addition to double glazing units is better sound insulator than dedicated triple glazing and a whole lot cheaper too.
So I would buy ready made double glazing units or if really cheap, second hand units that have failed and allowed in condensation then get specialist to re-fill and seal panes but get quote first.

 

[normspanners]

I used to work with Technal sections. They were early with the thermal break, quite complicated and priced to suite. ( They also had a range of bullet proof stuff.. popular with the Russian lot flooding in) I don't remember the break stuff being used much. Warm country and the heating and cooling was turned up a notch to suit. Condensation was not a problem that I noticed , despite the winters being wet and a bit cool.
__________________

My door in the kitchen is early cheap ally one with no thermal break and it condensates like mad the glass is fine just the frame of the actual door that hold the glass, yet I have an ally patio door with thermal break it was funny because I was only looking at it this morning before reading this old quote, and the door has no condensate

 

[KemppiFrog]

Ah, too much moisture inside, you just need to stop breathing so much...or less heavily


Seriously, despite the high humidity, condensation was not noticable. This was within a KM of the coast and the prevailing wind was onshore, so pretty humid.
KF

 

[Afterimage]

Double glazing panels are filled with argon.

I've had a few sealed units made up recently to replace cloudy blown units,and the guy that manufactures the units was happy do make these up while I waited - there's no argon,just dry air.

Has anyone ever actually seen argon being used in sealed units?

 

[brightspark]

I've had a few sealed units made up recently to replace cloudy blown units,and the guy that manufactures the units was happy do make these up while I waited - there's no argon,just dry air.

Has anyone ever actually seen argon being used in sealed units?

maybee hese not set up for filling them with gas. a lot of small outfits arent and some are out of business because of it http://www.alldoubleglazing.co.uk/articles/Argon-filled double glazing.aspx

 

[the artfull-codger]

Units filled with argon[or other more expensive gasses] are used on narrow cavity units but with wider cavities & a good pvc frame & soft coat ''k'' glass you can acheive the required u value without argon but as said it does insulate better than dry air.

 

[malcolm]

I've been reading up a lot on double glazing (in preparation for arguing with building regs about having to update my whole house to latest insulation regs just because of a slight change of use).

In any case, I'd not make them myself. Way cheaper just to buy them. According to the internet and various books It's only recently the manufactures have got the hang of preventing condensation failures. Or at least making the windows consistently last more than 20 years before steaming up. Though the condensation will be much less of an issue if the shed is rarely heated (but then why bother with double glazing).

Modern practice seems to be to vent the sealant at the edge of the double glazing. Fitting with normal linseed oil is a disaster - it rots the sealant. There is a special sealant recommended for fitting the units.

Apparently payback time for me fitting double glazing will be 50 to 70 years and I doubt they will last that long. I'm considering secondary glazing.

 

[the artfull-codger]

I've been reading up a lot on double glazing (in preparation for arguing with building regs about having to update my whole house to latest insulation regs just because of a slight change of use).

In any case, I'd not make them myself. Way cheaper just to buy them. According to the internet and various books It's only recently the manufactures have got the hang of preventing condensation failures. Or at least making the windows consistently last more than 20 years before steaming up. Though the condensation will be much less of an issue if the shed is rarely heated (but then why bother with double glazing).

Modern practice seems to be to vent the sealant at the edge of the double glazing. Fitting with normal linseed oil is a disaster - it rots the sealant. There is a special sealant recommended for fitting the units.

Apparently payback time for me fitting double glazing will be 50 to 70 years and I doubt they will last that long. I'm considering secondary glazing.

Linseed oil was never used for dg units, as you say it rots the seal on the units butyl putty was allways used[on timber frames] then later on, a butyl tape & capped off with silicone [imo a crap way ] units were guaranteed 25 yrs a long time ago then gradually went less, units in pvc frames are stood on spacers so when water gets in through the corners of the gasket[yes it does] it drains out through the weep holes in the bottom of the frame & doesn't usually affect the units, one of the main problems is when you have a unit in a wood frame that's fully sealed with butyle, if water gets in it sits in the bottom of the frame & the unit will eventually break down, another fault is ''poor quality glaziers!!''

 

[MG David]

I have secondary in my office and have been very pleased with it. The planners required the old Victorian style wooden windows to be retained.