Masking issues

[Paint munky]

Just to add a little. Are you de masking immediately after the final colour coat? Personally I would flat back the substrate 800, blow in the black to hold out, dry for 30mins, narrow F/E low tack (3M, don't get starchem) then mask the rest out with poly, lightly over with grey scotch, tack, blow in the red (2-3 light coats) and immediately de mask ready for clear.
Nick

No i didnt de mask immediately i left it for quite some time before de masking.

Basecoats were left for hours, the red over night before masking with low tack frog tape which still didnt help.

Tank is finished now, well apart from flatting and polishing the clear it is but i ended up masking the red off, re did the black and cleared it, waited a few hours, de masked which left the red looking ****. Masked off the black, re did the red and cleared it, left for a few hours and de masked which left tape and some paper marks on the clear. Left it over night and wet flatted all over with 800 then decals and another few coats of clear.

I reckon the poly sheet would help but that still wouldnt have solved the issue with the masking tape, i tried 3m fineline (couldnt find a low tack version) and low tack frog tape.

Just to note i am doing this in a shed with the doors open while im spraying to reduce the amount of fog gathering in the shed, i heated the tank with the IR lamp before painting and to dry each coat. Do you think the heat from the lamp would soften the paint under the masking enough to cause the problems im having? just clutching at straws here.

 

[aaran]

what primer and basecoat type are you using?

what are you cleaning the sanded primer off with and using to degrease the primer before the base?

 

[Paint munky]

Im using just a normal celly primer, not sure about the basecoat as its not labeled but this is where i get it from http://www.kentpaint.co.uk/

 

[richie00boy]

Are you putting anything in the water you use to wet flat the primer? Are you going over with panel wipe afterwards?

 

[Paint munky]

Yes a drop of washing up liquid and yes i use panel wipe

 

[aaran]

what sort of washing liquid? cheap or dear stuff (it makes a difference)

seems more like an adhesion or compatibility problem between the primer and the base coat rather than one related to the type of masking tape.

also there is a lot of texture in that basecoat paint in the previous pic, i am assuming you are shooting out of a spray gun? if so that much texture means your putting far far to much base on at a time, it should be a very smooth satin finish.

this is flint black honda base, coats one, 2 then 3+drop coat (as its a pearl black metallic)

First cost (very thin, its only to bite into the primer)

30 mins later the second coat (normal pass, there should be after this pass almost no texture/peel in the base)

waited an hour

after 3rd pass and a drop coat (again almost no texture)

and cleared (3 coats of 2k high solids)

also what sort of infrared, the cheap ones for patios heat outside in which are no good for bodywork, you need one that does the reverse (short wave i think?) it could be that die to the thickness of paint the heater is cooking the outer layers so it seems dry and when your masking then removing its lifting it off the paint on the primer as its not fully cured?

 

[Paint munky]

Ah its tesco own brand so quite possibly falls into the cheap category.

You may have guessed by now that im only a amature at painting and only paint my own stuff and a few bits and pieces for mates so some very good advice in that last post cheers aaran.

From your photos its clear im putting on too much base on atleast the first coat but regarding the time you leave before each coat mainly for the 3rd pass (1hr), i take it its ok to leave the paint in the gun for that amount of time without issues? would you leave it this long in the summer months too? Do you use a heater to dry the paint?

Yes i use a gun, i mainly use a mini deltalyo DL2000WB for everything, not ideal i know but i find the gun easy to use, i did buy a full size detalyo with the intention of using it for primer but i didnt get on with it at all.

The IR lamp ive bought wasnt that expensive (£180 ish), its packaged as fastmover and yes its a short wave. Its the first time ive used it so im unsure on how close i need to have it to the panel and indeed how long it needs to stay on. I never had this problem with the few things i painted in the summer months and only bought it as i thought it would give me a fighting chance of painting parts through the winter when the bikes are mostly off the road.

Lastly i could only dream of getting that kind of finish with the clear straight out of the gun, i always have to wet flat back with 800,1200,1500 and 2000. Then i G3,G6 and finally G10 before polish all by machine. Saying that though i always seem to end up with a reasonable finish (in my eyes) but it is very time consuming, still i prefer doing it myself than paying someone to do it for me and its rather enjoyable.

 

[Paint munky]

Also is celly primer ok to use? a lot of people i talk to tell me to use a 2k primer but apart from having a whacking great big tin of celly primer already if i can limit the amount of 2k im spraying to just the clear then id rather do that but if its going to cause problems then maybe i need to rethink.

 

[langy]

Ah its tesco own brand so quite possibly falls into the cheap category.

You may have guessed by now that im only a amature at painting and only paint my own stuff and a few bits and pieces for mates so some very good advice in that last post cheers aaran.

From your photos its clear im putting on too much base on atleast the first coat but regarding the time you leave before each coat mainly for the 3rd pass (1hr), i take it its ok to leave the paint in the gun for that amount of time without issues? would you leave it this long in the summer months too? Do you use a heater to dry the paint?

Yes i use a gun, i mainly use a mini deltalyo DL2000WB for everything, not ideal i know but i find the gun easy to use, i did buy a full size detalyo with the intention of using it for primer but i didnt get on with it at all.

The IR lamp ive bought wasnt that expensive (£180 ish), its packaged as fastmover and yes its a short wave. Its the first time ive used it so im unsure on how close i need to have it to the panel and indeed how long it needs to stay on. I never had this problem with the few things i painted in the summer months and only bought it as i thought it would give me a fighting chance of painting parts through the winter when the bikes are mostly off the road.

Lastly i could only dream of getting that kind of finish with the clear straight out of the gun, i always have to wet flat back with 800,1200,1500 and 2000. Then i G3,G6 and finally G10 before polish all by machine. Saying that though i always seem to end up with a reasonable finish (in my eyes) but it is very time consuming, still i prefer doing it myself than paying someone to do it for me and its rather enjoyable.

You wouldn't normally wait an hour between base coats, usually 10-15 mins, it flashes off very quickly, you need to check the tech sheets as the window can vary a lot.

 

[aaran]

yes flash off time between coats on a nice warm day is 10/15 mins per coat subject to humidity and metal temp. (the temp on the date sheet is the ambient temp of the items body, not the air temp)

i always leave the last coat longer, you want any thinners in basecoat time to "flash off" , the worst thing you can do with painting anything is rush (if thinners are present you can well end up with solvent pop, same again with the clear coats, to much to fast the solvents that evaporate and pop it all go's)

if your not 100% sure its dry then leave it longer. i have never had issues applying clear to basecoat up to an hour or 4 hours after the last coat went down and a good few of my cars are a good few years down the line now (my white crx we painted in that same shed we left it overnight as it was taking an age to dry/flash out) thats now 3 years old and its been outside everyday and no issues.

that black car was painted in late august , temp about 21c outside and i think the reading on the temp gun on the body was about 18c. last coat took a while to flash off in every nook and cranny. i spent form 9am until dinner doing the base then got 3 coats of clear down in the afternoon.

i still wet sanded that car down, it was a show car finish i wanted for the guy and being in a free air large shed there were dust nibs in the clear, hence why i lay another coat down because i can go mental wetsanding (started on that with p800 to level all the wave and nibs out quickly then worked up through 1000/1500 and finished on 2000 ) think i spent just as long wet sanding that as i did flatting back the epoxy primer then the high build primer lol

best advise is never rush and take your time. finish is always in the prep and base coat, clear is very forgiving as 99% of the time you can just sand it flat and polish it up