Newbie to arc welding, which rods for general purpose box section.

[PTvor]

Doesn't mean it'll always be dry - there are plenty of times I've been dragging welders through mud, rain and cattle muck to do a job. Had they been inverters going into a box afterwards it would have been a terrible place to store rods.

Dry, good quality rods are a must. It makes such a difference, I don't know why people both with cheap ones. They aren't 'good' to practice on, they're hard work and aren't much cheaper, for most people the 5 to 10 pound per box difference isn't going to matter in the slightest, as a box usually lasts for ages.

For the amateur welder rods are best stored in the airing cupboard.

I think cheap rods are a phase you have to go through, and what makes it worse is that you get the odd packet which is brilliant.

Nothing worse than having 5kg of horrible rods to have to use up.

It is pretty grim, but I suggest that being cast adrift on an ill-provisioned raft or being depth charged in a submarine would be much worse.

 

[BrokenBiker]

if my rods get damp i stick them in the oven for an hour

 

[MichaelV]

Hello Johnseat

I think you'll be able to get a good start made with your 25x25x2.5 box. I'll follow up with some pics in the next post...
Cut three lengths of the box, each about 10" long, and give them a reasonable brush/clean up.
Make a wee pyramid, so to speak, with two on the bottom, the third centred over the top. Make sure the top one is offset by about an inch from the two below.
Clamp them down, or even weight them down. You could clamp your earth lead onto the top one.
Using a 3.2mm 6013, electrode positive, and with what feels like an excessive rod angle, strike up near the end of the top tube, at the junction between it and the tube below. In the shots to follow I used INE 6013 3.2 dia rod, electrode positive, 110A on my very basic inverter.
You'll find that there's enough thermal mass in the material to cope, providing you keep a tight arc and move along at a nice speed.
Whilst it is not best practice by any means, just as a confidence building measure, you can actually drag the rod along on this first pass. There are many experts on here who'll guide you on the right technique for holding a proper arc, but just to start you off, gently drag. A nice dry 6013, with quite an obtuse rod angle will run fine like that. I stress - only to get your eye in at the start.
If all's reasonably well, you'll find the slag peels off with no effort, in longish chunks.
Brush clean, then run a second pass, partially overlapping the first pass. Repeat, and run a third on the upper edge.

The pics below might help a wee bit.

You'll make heaps of progress with your 25x25 box, and a packet of 3.2 dia 6013's. By the way, again the experts will advise on the merits of electrode polarity, but it's been my experience that the INE 6013's burn with rather less spatter on electrode positive.

Cheers
Michael

 

[BrokenBiker]

Do you not think maybe learning to start and maintain an arc might be a better first step than a fillet that requires a tight arc and fast travel speed...

 

[MichaelV]

 

[MichaelV]

Do you not think maybe learning to start and maintain an arc might be a better first step than a fillet that requires a tight arc and fast travel speed...

Oh yes, I quite agree BB. Johnseat you could do just that by running a bead along the top surface of the tube. Just personal preference - and nothing more - but I found fillets a good thing to try because you have two perpendicular faces to guide you along.

Cheers
Michael

 

[BrokenBiker]

I have some inch box lying around somewhere so will try it out at some point too

 

[Bill Edwards]

For the amateur welder rods are best stored in the airing cupboard.

I think cheap rods are a phase you have to go through, and what makes it worse is that you get the odd packet which is brilliant.



It is pretty grim, but I suggest that being cast adrift on an ill-provisioned raft or being depth charged in a submarine would be much worse.

You haven't tried a pack I got in desperation from a local agri merchant once they got ever so slightly damp!

 

[BrokenBiker]

You haven't tried a pack I got in desperation from a local agri merchant once they got ever so slightly damp!

I ha e had similar rods...was welding a few frames up in my fathers garden out of inch box to hang trellis panels on I make a sort of rose arch walkway type thing and it rained for about 2 mins, very lightly, I didn't even stop welding but the rods that were lying on top of the welder ready to be used were terrible after the rain, flux crumbled off in clumps

 

[Richard.]

I used to hate mma (mainly due to my old keeping rods in the garage...9 times out of 10 the flux was sodden...
Mine now live under the stairs and go into the garage only when I need them...far better

I do the same lol. I keep a section of the airing cuboard free for my consumables. I had no end of trouble with my alu Tig rods sucking in moisture when in the cold shop and this resolved it

 

[Farside]

Super6 being a good example where a batch comes in from the cheapest supplier at the time, and it is a matter of luck as to what rod you pull out of the box.

Just like their mig wire. Totally unpredictable.

For the amateur welder rods are best stored in the airing cupboard.

I think cheap rods are a phase you have to go through, and what makes it worse is that you get the odd packet which is brilliant.



It is pretty grim, but I suggest that being cast adrift on an ill-provisioned raft or being depth charged in a submarine would be much worse.

But nothing compares to the realisation that some bstrd has eaten the last Jaffa Cake.

 

[PTvor]

But nothing compares to the realisation that some bstrd has eaten the last Jaffa Cake.

Well it wouldn't be me because I don't like them.

 

[Willl]

Any opinions on par weld electrodes?

 

[PTvor]

I think they are just rods that Parweld have bought from some source or other and sell as Parweld. They may be good, they may not, and they could well vary from box to box.

For less than £20 a box I can get Bohler/Phoenix 6013 and ESAB OK 46.30 and a couple of others which have data sheets they are supposed to conform to, and they are good in my experience and generally well thought of and held to be consistent on here.

So having been through my cheap rod phase, I wouldn't be tempted to try Parweld rods, to save a few quid and quite likely end up with 5 kg of rods I didn't think were much good to plough through. If anything, I'd go the other way and pay full whack for Fincord M etc.

 

[snowcat]

Par weld electrodes will almost certainly be just another outsourced product, Its possible they may be OK, Its possible that some batches or supplies are OK, however its very likely there be inconsistent. Branded rods are subjective, much like attempting to tell Coca Cola from Pepsi, but whatever the brand and model decent rods will burn pretty much identical from batch to batch.

 

[Bill Edwards]

I'd avoid Parweld rods. I use them at work as options are limited and they aren't too bad, but they're nowhere near the good brands and I certainly wouldn't use them if I had a proper choice.

For what they cost just get decent, it really doesn't add up to much extra. And ideally buy them from me

 

[123hotchef]

I'd avoid Parweld rods. I use them at work as options are limited and they aren't too bad, but they're nowhere near the good brands and I certainly wouldn't use them if I had a proper choice.

For what they cost just get decent, it really doesn't add up to much extra. And ideally buy them from me

what rods do you sell Bill?

 

[super noob]

I'm just using 7018's for general work now.....keep them in the oven with the pilot light on and they stay dry enough....

About to buy a new batch so I'm going to try some Elga rods as they're fairly cheap and meant to be decent, that said if I don't like them I'll be back to Lincoln Hydrods.
6013 wise though the ESAB OK ones are excellent as I've been burning my way through an ancient box of them, Oerlikon are brilliant but expensive and SIF work but I wouldn't buy a box if given the choice...

 

[123hotchef]

i am using some from toolstation they are better than the aldi ones