old school arc welder for thin metal

[Kent]

Was in the shop with my camera this morning. Here is a thin work example the top plate is 5mm but that old workmate is 1-1.2mm and rusty. Rod used 2.5 6013 DCEN. Done in a rush!

 

[Richard.]

Have you got any thin on thin Kent? Thick to thin is easier as the arc can be concentrated heavily on the 5mm wetting the edges of the 1mm. I know it can be done as I've seen good stick welders zap up sheet metal around the 1mm mark. I on the other hand would not be that great at doing it as I've not had the practice.

 

[rich r]

I've repaired a cracked garden spade with Aldi 1.6mm rods on a buzzbox - it's not the neatest job and probably doesn't have great strength, but it is possible and the spade hasn't cracked again since. Using 2.0mm is easier, but just being careful at about 50A with 2.5mm you can do as good a job without having to fight the rod disappearing at such a high rate and there being four times as much slag as metal around the weld pool.

However as people have said - if you have nothing else then welding mild steel down to about 1.5mm is possible. But if you have mig or tig available then why would you make life difficult for yourself?

 

[norlander]

maybe have a chat with a gent on here called premington, If I remember correctly, he welds stainless exhausts with stick, but think he has an inverter set though.

 

[Kent]

Have you got any thin on thin Kent? Thick to thin is easier as the arc can be concentrated heavily on the 5mm wetting the edges of the 1mm. I know it can be done as I've seen good stick welders zap up sheet metal around the 1mm mark. I on the other hand would not be that great at doing it as I've not had the practice.

Look at were the 5mm ends and the bead size Richard! the arc got to be about 4-5mm off the thick so I got some beef into it I don't really do much work at all in 1mm full stop, if I did I should go MIG or TIG with it but it can still be done if you use everything to your advantage EN not EP, downhill if you can and always break out early and fast if things get too hot don't wait for a full on hole - coz it wont be a small one

Took an old workmate, chopped the top off slapped the 5mm on one morning so I could use my bar rollers on site that day. I will do some thin to thin when I come across some

 

[Rocketman]

Thing is it's all very nice talking about 1mm but on a car in areas it often drops below 1mm thick steel.

 

[Kent]

Thing is it's all very nice talking about 1mm but on a car in areas it often drops below 1mm thick steel.

There are of course limits but that depends on what your doing as regards the joint. Its not to be recommended for thin don't get me wrong but some set the lower limits too high for it to be of real use

 

[brightspark]

Was in the shop with my camera this morning. Here is a thin work example the top plate is 5mm but that old workmate is 1-1.2mm and rusty. Rod used 2.5 6013 DCEN. Done in a rush!View attachment 65476

its verry easy welding thin metal to a thick piece just keep the rod on the thicker metal and it acts as a heat sink . lets see welding being done on car pannels without a heat sink behind

 

[Richard.]

its verry easy welding thin metal to a thick piece just keep the rod on the thicker metal and it acts as a heat sink . lets see welding being done on car pannels without a heat sink behind

It can be done. I've seen what some people can do with electrodes. It's like anything worth doing it takes skill, time and practice

 

[Kent]

its verry easy welding thin metal to a thick piece just keep the rod on the thicker metal and it acts as a heat sink . lets see welding being done on car pannels without a heat sink behind

Its not a great picture but if you look at were the 5mm ends. I am going to do some silly stuff when time permits I was actually looking at my over stock of Stanley blades and thinking "wonder if" yesterday, doubt it but you never know with a few dodges.
What the heck is wrong with using heat sinks, blobbing in, running down hill or any thing that makes things easier. The whole idea is to make the undoable doable. If I wanted to set up a fail I should just try filling an open butt in 22swg with a 3.2mm

 

[GeorgeB]

just been looking at an old Olympic bantam stick oil cooled welder with 25 to 185 amp range I was surprised the amps went that low and it seems like a very versatile amp range anyone think this welder would be good for thin car panes and 1mm sheet probably last forever aswell

I agree with Kent and others who say it's not only possible but perfectly achievable. Most of my arc welding is on thin steel, mostly 0.8mmm depth or thinner when partially rusted, of course. That said, it's much, much harder to do on a car panel in situ, rather than weld a test piece on a work bench. I did get two arc-welded sill repairs through the MOT, several times and they remain functional, even if they would score very low for artistic merit. I'd sooner have that - it's all subjective - than a weld which looks neat but isn't as strong. I gave up on 1.6mm rods and now use only 2mm - which I find much better. As for amps going low, yes it is important, of course, but I often myself using higher power, even on the thinnest plate. The oil cooled welders are great, partly because the voltage is normally much higher than on small 'buzz boxes'. That helps too, when welding thin car panels.

 

[wheresmejumper]

Theres a thin gauge method called break arc welding,i think thats what its called.you basically lay a stack of dimes one dime at a time.one dime,break away the arc,back in another dime,etc like spot weld migging i suppose.but too much voltage in a welder is a hindrance as when you try to break away the arc between each dime the bigger voltage keeps the arc lit.it would dance everywhere outside the weld area leaving marks. There is a murex welder dc201i or close to that anyway,has a break arc mode for exactly this purpose.it must extinguish the arc real easy when you break away i think,but i only stick welded heavy wall with it,never got to try the feature out

 

[ms08]

Yep ...that was me!

...and new...1275GT floor and sills......

 

[Bill Edwards]

I welded some thin metal sprayer booms probably a good year ago as they'd cracked.
I'd guess the metal to be 1.5mm at the most, probably less. This time I did the welding with gas as it's now available to me.

But last time was with 3.2mm rods (yes on sub? 1.5mm steel) with a basic buzz box - not even an oil cooled welder as the cable wouldn't reach.

Not ONE of the welds I did with the gas was repairing any of the ones I did with the most unsuitable equipment possible, none have cracked. The work I did was new cracks in different places, not related. The sprayer does a lot of work, it's well used. Some of the welds were vertical ones too, they're still fine.


So yes, it certainly is possible to weld the thin stuff even with thick rods.
But it isn't easy, isn't fun, isn't quick and isn't ideal.
With gas or a MIG i'd never consider using stick for that kind of work, it isn't the right tool.

 

[brightspark]

all i want to see is a few decent patches done on carbodywork with the arc welder and no heat sink behind not some thin bit of metal joined together on a bench that anyone can achieve just face it there no good on car bodywork

 

[Bill Edwards]

No, they're not!
I was just pointing out that you can actually do quite a bit with them as others said, but I make it very clear it's not a good idea!

Worst thing I hear people say is 'it's passed x number of MOT's'. Worthless, utterly worthless way to judge the 'quality' of a weld. MOT standards aren't really standards, as long as it doesn't fall off and land on the examiners head while under it...

 

[Kent]

Theres a thin gauge method called break arc welding,i think thats what its called.you basically lay a stack of dimes one dime at a time.one dime,break away the arc,back in another dime,etc like spot weld migging i suppose.but too much voltage in a welder is a hindrance as when you try to break away the arc between each dime the bigger voltage keeps the arc lit.it would dance everywhere outside the weld area leaving marks. There is a murex welder dc201i or close to that anyway,has a break arc mode for exactly this purpose.it must extinguish the arc real easy when you break away i think,but i only stick welded heavy wall with it,never got to try the feature out

That's what I have always called blobbing in

 

[Kent]

all i want to see is a few decent patches done on carbodywork with the arc welder and no heat sink behind not some thin bit of metal joined together on a bench that anyone can achieve just face it there no good on car bodywork

You will wait a long time, what is wrong with a heat sink and why don't everyone run a continuous bead with MIG on thin car panels? If you set the bar too high you see nobody will ever jump over it or even try.
The thing is MMA comes behind MIG , O/A, TIG in the car body stakes an only a fool should say otherwise but the fact is it can be done but you have to use every trick in the box! Why not try it blindfolded that should make it even harder still
Use of heat sinks, blobbing in , running downhill vert, and it can be done. Thing is there are only two reasons to try 1. there is no other option available to you 2. you want to further your skills for the day you find yourself slap bang in the middle of reason 1!
Faced with any welding situation you just make things as easy as you can

 

[brightspark]

i wont go ranting on about it but a lot of car pannels and box section cannot be got at behind for a heat sink so there fore stick welding them isnt any good,ive learnt gas welding with oxy acet myself and is verry versatile and better than mig even though its slower ,so pidgeon sh,,,ting pannels with stick u will never convince me . show me some that has been done to a half decent standard thats all i ask

 

[GeorgeB]

panels with stick u will never convince me . show me some that has been done to a half decent standard thats all i ask

Who sets the standard? I suggest that arc welds stand a good chance of being stronger than many mig welds. Either of them can be ground back to look tidy but I generally don't bother, in hidden away areas, because I prefer to keep the strength of the original weld deposits. None of my real-world arc welded joints have ever failed, so far. I include car welding to MOT standards, tools, etc. Since I last tried defending the idea of arc welding thin sheet steel on this forum, youtube has taken off and there are now loads of videos of people doing just that, so I think the critics, sceptics and doubters need to change their story.