Pipe root?

[Scott_welderbeast]

Might sound a daft question but bear with me.
Is there much call for stick root on pipe or is Tig root generally the way to go?

Since becoming a welder 90% of my experience is TIG which is fine specialising in one process but I've little experience in Stick.
My skills in Stick are OK but nothing to shout about, I've experience using it down hand, vertical and overhead but with regards to pipe im a complete novice. The only time I get to use stick is on site or in my garage trying to get it dialed. I've been practising stick fill on 4" SCH 40 (scrap from work), I can fill and cap OK in 1G and 2G positions but I'm snookered trying 5G and 6G. The rods I'm using aren't sparkling but for what I need they'll suffice, they're super 6 2.5mm in both 6013 and 7018.

If anyone can shed some light and maybe some pointers it'd be appreciated

 

[TechnicAl]

For quality work TIG root is the way to go

The cross country pipelines are sometimes stick root but thats specialist and not easy to get into

After TIG rooting the fill and cap can be stick, or Solid Wire or FCW......dependent on job / joint / access etc etc

 

[Bill Edwards]

I would not use Super6 rods for trying to weld 6g!
Cheap rods like those vary hugely in quality, even rods in the same box can vary. What settings work on one rod may not be ideal for the next one you pull out, keep them for easy welding jobs and get something decent as you are making life hard for yourself.

Go for known brands such as Murex, Pheonix etc (my personal favorite, and I have some excess 6013 for sale if you're interested). Make sure to keep rods dry as well, damp rods can also make things hard, though this seems to be more of an issue with poor ones.

 

[Scott_welderbeast]

I would not use Super6 rods for trying to weld 6g!
Cheap rods like those vary hugely in quality, even rods in the same box can vary. What settings work on one rod may not be ideal for the next one you pull out, keep them for easy welding jobs and get something decent as you are making life hard for yourself.

Go for known brands such as Murex, Pheonix etc (my personal favorite, and I have some excess 6013 for sale if you're interested). Make sure to keep rods dry as well, damp rods can also make things hard, though this seems to be more of an issue with poor ones.

Yeah I've come to realise they have their limitations and probably not fit for purpose on positional. I do keep them dry indoors as I didn't wanna risk leaving them outside over winter to gather moisture. Their sole use is practice practice practice but you've probably got a point with needing better quality rods, I'm not amazing at stick but I didn't think I was that bad the welds were poor at best in 5+6G. With regards to your spare rods how much do you have and what's the price? Feel free to message me
And thanks for the advise too it's much appreciated

 

[Bill Edwards]

PM sent re the rods.

There can be a huge difference in rods noticeable on easy jobs - poor ones tend to give slag inclusions, favor one side and generally make a mess and don't run smooth. It can make a good weld hard at the best of times (I went off 6013 due to these problems, I now use them again a bit having got a few decent rods I've been reminded myself of the difference it makes) but when you're doing something which is at the limit of your capability and more demanding on the rods such as positional/6g you're going to seriously handicap yourself.

It's not guaranteed that you'll instantly find you're doing better, you can get cheap rods which are fine, but they're a rare find. They usually vary from poor to terrible in my experience.

Stick up some photo's of your welds for pointers, there may be advice we can give.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

Super6 consumables of any flavour are only fit for stirring paint, get yourself a box of fincord m

 

[Kent]

Super six? Not a rod I should select for anything but basic work on the flat or tacking up.
The electrodes are not well centred in the flux and the arc can suddenly pop off to the side
However on a 6013 they are brilliant for lighting up if your needing to tack up fast

Suggest getting some better rods in

 

[Brad93]

Super 6 consumables are complete crap from their TIG electrodes to their MIG wire. 7018 isnt really for pipe rooting nor 6013. My personal choice with 7018 is lincoln, many people like ESAB 6010 for rooting pipe, i believe the rods are called Nu5 or something like that. Its a fast-freezing cellulosic rod so probably wouldnt be able to run it on a standard inverter or transformer set as iirc they need an OCV of 60+ volts

 

[Scott_welderbeast]

Thanks for the replies guys
I've not tried rooting any pipe with with stick just fill and cap for practise, i dont wanna try run before i can walk. I'm gonna invest in some better rods hopefully itll make a difference but in the meantime I'll get a few pictures up tomorrow show you my attempts

 

[Rrunnach]

Best bet would be if you know a welder who is a good hand at root-fill-cap @ 6G/HLO-45, who can physically show you how it is done. To start with, though, go downhand, roly-poly the pipe as you weld up each quarter.

Prep is very important, too. 60 degree inclusive angle, approx 2-2.5mm root face, 2mm root gap. The latter two are experimental, till you find what prep serves you best.

Cheers.

 

[PTvor]

I've only used half a dozen Super 6 3.2mm 6013s and with the ones I had I couldn't see the weld pool for the smoke. it's the first time I've had that problem. They're a cheapo rod sold by SWP and I can believe they get them from various sources, whichever's the cheapest, and the quality and consistency will be all over the place.

Phoenix are a good cheap 6013 (and I've used at least a dozen types of 6013) and for a cheap 7018, Tenacito R which were being sold for not too much (£15 inc P&P???) on ebay a time back..

 

[Scott_welderbeast]

Thanks guys, my boss is a good welder but asking him about stick is like blasphemy hahaha he's hardcore Tig so that's why I've not bothered hahaha
As for prep and fit up I'm pretty anal about that for the tig root I dont think I'll be attempting stick root any time soon.
Im trying to get my stick up to scratch really in case work drops off, the last 12 months have been really slow at work so if I decide to look elsewhere I don't wanna be a one trick pony so to speak

 

[Scott_welderbeast]

Right this is the same pipe but different shots. I tried to get in all my stop starts.

I welded it from 3 - 12 then 9 - 12 rotated 180 degrees and did the same again. I feel the starts are lumpy and the weld is inconsistent.
I used around 70-75 amps iirc the starts were tough to get going, but I've tried to follow my edges but it kicked out a fair amount of smoke, I've been pampered with the clean Tig lol.

I don't have any shots of the 5 or 6 G attempts as I only have this pipe. It gets welded to get butchered again lol but gas isn't that cheap for the root so the pipe welds are minimal

Don't hold back

 

[Kent]

If those were done with super six they ain't too bad.

 

[Bill Edwards]

I'd say they're quite good, far better than I was expecting.

 

[Scott_welderbeast]

Yeah these are super 6 6013 2.5mm rods. I do try to keep all surfaces clean and rust/scale free before hand and I've got the general idea of how it's done, I just need a push in the general direction because I feel the pictures are quite forgiving definitely not how I'd like them to be in person

 

[Tinbasherdan]

Not bad, I'm no pipe welder but I would have thought you would feather the stop starts in with a grinder tho to prevent a lumpy join

 

[Scott_welderbeast]

You're absolutely right but I'll be honest it never crossed my mind to feather them in lol. I was that eager to get burning rods I never thought about it......simple solutions n all that.
I never have to at work cos I can just pick back up where I left off with Tig so it never crossed my mind haha

 

[Kent]

Your dead right about the one trick pony thing. Speaking to a guy yesterday I worked with at the firm with him were we both trained. He is now general manager and the firm is substantially larger. All his guys are all coded as it's pressure systems and tanks. He only rated one out of all his guys because he was all three systems ( the only one who was) I find it surprising that all don't progress to this even if they need do it off thier own back

 

[Scott_welderbeast]

Ive met a few welders locally and out of all of them there's 3 I can say are truly multi skilled.

This is why I want to cover my own back and at least be coherent in another process. I know it's all about what the employer wants and needs after all they pay the wages at the end of the week.
But I've noticed this last 12 months have been a struggle at least locally anyways. Companies fighting for work asking for anything to be put their way and my boss was no different. It doesn't fill me with confidence the current climate so I want to stay employable.

Ive even looked at going self employed (at least after my wedding in July anyway) but if it didn't work out there's no where to go back to. I know there's no safety in any position but it's definately been a kick up my backside to try be a better welder.

This is the whole reason I'm trying to learn stick to try stay in the lead so to speak